Cheaper alternative to a Cornish Yawl/Crabber!

Zagato

Zagato

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Having researched Cornish Crabbers I am now teetering on the edge of advertising my Drascombe Drifter and looking for a Cornish Yawl with a budget of up 25K. Before I do anything in earnest I wanted to check that there was no cheaper/better alternative. It has to be something charming, beautiful with character, I'm not interested in mainstream stuff or wooden boats. I like gaff rigs, wood spars, tan sails etc. The Cornish Yawl with a mizzen is perfect for me especially with a lowish draught for estuary sailing and it is a hefty size with good accommodation. Thanks

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I am new to this Forum but noticed your recent posts. I have been considering a Drifter and have struggled to find much in the way of reviews by owners. Can I ask why you are looking to change? Have you been happy with the Drifter? Any thoughts or comments for a possible, potential buyer?
 
Not sure I should be advising on alternatives, given that I'm hoping you might buy my Yawl in a couple of years' time :), but it may be worth looking at the various boats made by Martin Heard's Gaffers and Luggers yard. They made the fibreglass Falmouth Working Boats (the genuinely working ones, that dredge for oysters) and various other fibreglass-hulled but otherwise traditional types.

Pete
 
There is a Heard 23 for sale in PBO, but it is flush deck. Under £10k. Most Heard boats are 28ft so in a different league (although he did build smaller such as the Tosher 18). Other alternatives are Tamarisk 24 or Itchen Ferry 25, both of which (if you can find one) will be much cheaper. However, it is a very small niche market and it is really only Crabbers that have been made in any numbers.
 
Thanks for the ideas, I have discounted some in the past Norfolks, Swallows etc but will look up Tranonas leads in particular.

'Magicol' The Drifter for me is a superb boat, easy to sail, outboard engine is a plus for me, can trailer sail, no centre board to faff about with or inherent problems with cracked casings or stone being jammed inside, only 2' draft, very sturdy in a blow, push the mast up yourself, huge cockpit can sit 11 people, etc etc it's just one of those well thought out boats. I love it and it doesn't make sense as I single handed sail BUT I would like something bigger interior wise, although I will pay for it in mooring dues, inboard costs, maintenance in general for a boat that is over twice the weight and the rigging etc is twice the size of the Drifter.

I should in every way keep the Drifter, the Drascombe clan rallies etc are also very good especially if you are an inexperienced sailor like me - it's just that from photographs the Yawl is such a beautiful impressive boat. I need to see one in the flesh first and fall in love with it before I do anything :confused: It's a lot more money for something the Drifter does equally well apart from interior space! I am a dreamer and lust after beutiful things, it comes down to the fact that although the Drifter is an attractive boat the Yawl is gobsmacking - in pictures anyway! We'll see but looking at the picture above I am in serious desire and you only live once!!
 
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Hi Zag. Loved your enthusiasm for your next boat. I was smitten by a Cornish Shrimper and love it. Go indulge!
 
NigelCraig said:
I think the main problem with the Cornish Yawl will be finding one.
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You would think so but 3 have come up for sale in the last 3 months, asking between 17K - 28K. I have done a lot of foot work on prices and also pm'd owners, people seem to be asking 3-4K + more than they are actually getting or hoping for. A VERY nice 1995 Crabber with the later coach-roof and possible other alterations advertised at over 30K can be got for 25K for instance - which really is it top price anyway. A few owners have said they are suffering in the recession, especially when you can get something similar for half the price or go AWB and buy even cheaper. Crabbers have always been a premium price for what they are, being held up on image/brand following but it is these marques that suffer the most when money is tight!

It's definitely a buyers market. Crabbers are usually lovingly looked after - it's that type of boat. In the later model 25K Crabber bracket there are some very well kept 2 owner examples, little used, kept on rivers, epoxied from new, copper coated hulls etc, annually valeted including sails, new rigging etc etc - some are kept in very good condition. There are also many out there that have been used as caravans, been messed about with and are tired and worn. It's worth doing the leg work before you buy anything, plenty to choose from, especially over next winter!
 
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Zagato said:
You would think so but 3 have come up for sale in the last 3 months, asking between 17K - 28K. I have done a lot of foot work on prices and also pm'd owners, people seem to be asking 3-4K + more than they are actually getting or hoping for. A VERY nice 1995 Crabber with the later coach-roof and possible other alterations advertised at over 30K can be got for 25K for instance - which really is it top price anyway. A few owners have said they are suffering in the recession, especially when you can get something similar for half the price or go AWB and buy even cheaper. Crabbers have always been a premium price for what they are, being held up on image/brand following but it is these marques that suffer the most when money is tight!

It's definitely a buyers market. Crabbers are usually lovingly looked after - it's that type of boat. In the later model 25K Crabber bracket there are some very well kept 2 owner examples, little used, kept on rivers, epoxied from new, copper coated hulls etc, annually valeted including sails, new rigging etc etc - some are kept in very good condition. There are also many out there that have been used as caravans, been messed about with and are tired and worn. It's worth doing the leg work before you buy anything, plenty to choose from, especially over next winter!
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Good points - BTW I do believe that the prices for new Crabbers (although beyond my pocket!) are not so unreasonable - obviously if you only make 100-200 boats a year, say, you need bigger margins than if you make 000's - I just think they cost more to make. Interestingly the price of a new Crabber12 dinghy is £6K, which is competitive with anything else of that type, so I don't think, as a company, they are prone to gouging because of their brand image.
 
Cornish Yawl Forum

Zag - Re. cost of Yawls and Crabbers - you get what you pay for. Cornish Crabbers, especially the earlier ones (including the Yawl) had massive lay-ups. Just check out the weights. A surveyor has described them as 'bulletproof'.
If you want to be totally objective, I suppose you could check out the cost per kilo, or something, but it makes sense to realise that really strong hulls take more materials and much more labour. I once built an Express dinghy from moulds, resin and glass mat, and I have been in the Crabber factory and seen the work that goes into their hand-built hulls. IMHO they are fantastic value for money. And it is the weight as well as the traditional design which makes them so sea-kindly. Same goes for the similar Heards and Norfolk Smugglers etc. Not so for mass-produced lightweight 'average white blobs'.

Pete - Super picture of Kindred Spirit with the gaff mizzen. Annabelle came with a spare gaff mizzen. I really must get round to rigging it. Loads of jobs done, obviously more to do.......

Zag - one more thing - if you like doing your own projects, then any of these boats will keep you very satisfied.

Yawl have a good time. :D
 
Just trying to single handedly crash prices for Crabbers Bri ;) :D Course I'll build it back up again when I own one -just needs a bit of desirable marketing!!

I ventured into the dark site of a broker site and looked at white featureless AWB's but fell asleep :rolleyes:

This one is OK, average condition, rebuilt engine (new conrods apparently on the Yanmar which isn't uncommon apparently :eek: Wonder if it was overheated of something to cause that!) It's way too much in comparison to other mint later Crabber24 examples with all the bells and whistles. Been on for 6 weeks, needs to put a more realistic price down and it will sell like the others between 17.5 - 22K.

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/classic-sailing-boats/cornish-yawl-PAA50582

You can fit a mizzen to a Crabber apparently. One of those for sale describes this and the work was supervised by Crabbers themselves. Drascombe mizzen drop into a slot but i presume Yawl ones go into some kind of tabernacle!
 
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Zagato said:
This one is OK, average condition, rebuilt engine (new conrods apparently on the Yanmar which isn't uncommon apparently :eek: Wonder if it was overheated of something to cause that!)
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Our one was rebuilt (again, at least one new conrod) due to the previous owner filling it with water :eek:. Fresh water, at least - shoved a hose where it didn't belong when trying to run up on land.

Complete dealer rebuild, no expense spared, like having a new engine now.

Zagato said:
You can fit a mizzen to a Crabber apparently. One of those for sale describes this and the work was supervised by Crabbers themselves. Drascombe mizzen drop into a slot but i presume Yawl ones go into some kind of tabernacle!
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Not sure where it would go on a Crabber - there's no boat to put it on aft of the cockpit. Does the mast run up the inside face of the transom, perhaps? And in that case, how does the tiller work? You'd also need to somehow brace a substantial bumkin to sheet the Drascombe's boomless sail.

Most Yawls don't have a bumkin; KS has a short one added by the previous owner which I don't think is really necessary. Apparently he was considering re-rigging the mizzen (again!) as a standing gaff with brails, like a Thames barge, and you would need the bumkin for that. He never did though. The bumkin folds up for marina purposes if needed; nowhere has ever tried to charge for it, but a guy in Yarmouth on a boat larger than his abilities asked me to stow it before he departed to reduce the risk of collision (he hit the boat next door to me instead :) )

The Yawl mizzen does indeed have a small tabernacle, from which the mast would hinge down forwards, but in practice it's light enough to just lift up and drop into place by hand, treating the tabernacle as a simple socket. In winter, the socket acts as a sturdy support for a wooden crutch to hold the mainmast; another fits into the mainmast tabernacle and the mast lies horizontally atop the two. These particular crutches are a specific Kindred Spirit item (though I dare say some other owners have done similar) - she also came with a short lighting gantry that mounted on top of the lowered mast, to show navigation and steaming lights for use on the French canals :)

Pete
 
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Zagato said:
Just trying to single handedly crash prices for Crabbers Bri ;) :D Course I'll build it back up again when I own one -just needs a bit of desirable marketing!!

I ventured into the dark site of a broker site and looked at white featureless AWB's but fell asleep :rolleyes:

This one is OK, average condition, rebuilt engine (new conrods apparently on the Yanmar which isn't uncommon apparently :eek: Wonder if it was overheated of something to cause that!) It's way too much in comparison to other mint later Crabber24 examples with all the bells and whistles. Been on for 6 weeks, needs to put a more realistic price down and it will sell like the others between 17.5 - 22K.

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/classic-sailing-boats/cornish-yawl-PAA50582

You can fit a mizzen to a Crabber apparently. One of those for sale describes this and the work was supervised by Crabbers themselves. Drascombe mizzen drop into a slot but i presume Yawl ones go into some kind of tabernacle!
Click to expand...

Zag - That price does seem a little high, especially as it still has the Yanmar 1GM engine. I assume it is original, as most people would have upgraded to the 2GM.
The C.Yawl hull is very specific to the rig. The mizzen tabernacle is immediately abaft the rudder post (which is what makes it a yawl :) ) and there are a pair of lockers in the after deck behind the traveller. All this space used up behind the mizzen mast is probably the reason they did not sell too many Yawls. You see, at the Boat Show, the cockpit and the cabin would both look much bigger on other 24foot boats. So they did not have show-appeal! But us yawl owners are not fussed about that; we appreciate the handling and the versatility. I could go on forever comparing the different attributes of the Crabber range, but I don't want to bore you.
I went out single-handed on Wednesday in the Camel Estuary and as usual got a shouted comment from a passing boat:- "Lovely!" And I had not even got the main up yet, only the headsails and mizzen. And this is in Cornish Crabbers own port, where Shrimpers are the most common boat. 'Nuff said...
What is so beautiful about the Yawl hull is the stern design, with the chines sweeping up to a proper transom; not 'chopped-off' with a rudder hung on the back like so many other boats.
Good luck with your search for a decent example. Many people will have spent a lot of time and money maintaining and upgrading. You get what you pay for...... and you have to pay for quality and condition.
If you consider that you could pay MORE for an average Shrimper than the asking prices for the Yawls, I think you will find they are very fairly priced. Good hunting.:cool:
 
Thanks, I am going on a 5 day rally soon so can have a look at a few Yawls/Crabbers again. Sailing from the Camel sounds superb. I would love to go around the Island you can see from Trevone one day (not puffin Island) I might have to hail a Yawl down when I'm next in the area :D

I had a IGM Yanmar in my old boat, what a racket down below, not good when the kids spend so much time down their playing with all the switches and stop cocks :eek:. A friend of mine recently bought a brand new Shrimper and I can't believe how quiet it is in comparison and again it's the 9HP jobbie. Good soundproofing and maybe even decent engine mounts makes quite a difference!
 
CY10 said:
If you consider that you could pay MORE for an average Shrimper than the asking prices for the Yawls, I think you will find they are very fairly priced.
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That's true - can't remember the exact numbers but my Uncle paid more for his purple Shrimper than we did for KS.

Pete
 
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