Cheap mast climbing gear

[Iain C]

Enough is enough. To go aloft at the moment I have a **** "sit in" bosuns chair. Fine to sit back in, but this means I sit there whilst people puff and sweat on my fairly small winches. I can't really add much as I end up slipping forward.

I also need 3 people for safety...one in the cockpit tailing the main halyard through the closed clutch and round a genoa cleat, and two at the mast base on the genoa halyard, one to grind, one to tail. In practice I try and shimmy up as much as I can, invariably meaning I slip forward out of the chair and it's very uncomfortable, plus having people at the mast base isn't ideal if any tools get dropped on the way up.

What I want is this. A climbing style harness with some kind of ascender mechanism, so I can make the genoa halyard off securely, make my own way up that, whilst just one other person tails the main halyard from the cockpit as before. More comfy, less effort, safer.

I notice that even budget stores such as Go Outdoors and Decathlon are now selling climbing gear. Can any experienced climbers point me to the gear I need...it has to be cheaper than buying a dedicated yotty specific product. I just want one of those "stand up, sit down, stand up" slidey ascender systems.

Thanks

 

[knuterikt]

Enough is enough. To go aloft at the moment I have a **** "sit in" bosuns chair. Fine to sit back in, but this means I sit there whilst people puff and sweat on my fairly small winches. I can't really add much as I end up slipping forward.

I also need 3 people for safety...one in the cockpit tailing the main halyard through the closed clutch and round a genoa cleat, and two at the mast base on the genoa halyard, one to grind, one to tail. In practice I try and shimmy up as much as I can, invariably meaning I slip forward out of the chair and it's very uncomfortable, plus having people at the mast base isn't ideal if any tools get dropped on the way up.

What I want is this. A climbing style harness with some kind of ascender mechanism, so I can make the genoa halyard off securely, make my own way up that, whilst just one other person tails the main halyard from the cockpit as before. More comfy, less effort, safer.

I notice that even budget stores such as Go Outdoors and Decathlon are now selling climbing gear. Can any experienced climbers point me to the gear I need...it has to be cheaper than buying a dedicated yotty specific product. I just want one of those "stand up, sit down, stand up" slidey ascender systems.

Thanks

I have made this, use it in combination with a bosuns chair.
Put my feet into the two holes and stand up, helper take in the slack on the halyard.
Lift the step with my foot and raise up....
Made of a salvaged piece of plywood and some HW.

 

[Gargleblaster]

I find something like this works well and if you are prepared to work without a safety line you can do it single handed.

It rolls up and lives in a cockpit locker.

 

[prv]

I've just bought a couple of these. They're basically knock-offs of Petzl gear for less money, and seem well-made. I also bought one of their "mini ascenders", which was less well made (still sturdy and safe, but a bit crude) and I have the package on my desk today to send it back to them for a refund. I'm going to replace it with a third multi-purpose one.

Rather than sit-stand, I'm going to have two independent foot-loops (albeit with a loose lanyard between them to avoid doing the splits!) so I can just step up like climbing a ladder. Some light elastic to the harness will pull each ascender up the rope when its foot-loop is unweighted. Of course one foot-loop needs to be longer than the other so that each ascender has its own stretch of rope in which to work, without trying to pass each other.

The third ascender (originally to be the mini one) will go on the harness loop on my chest and won't be used for climbing as such, but to hold my body in place rather than purely balancing on the feet. I will also be able to sit down in the harness hanging from it, though at the masthead that will probably put me too low to reach (say) the lights and I'll have to stand up.

I've bought some static climbing rope, which is tighter-woven and harder than my new halyards and less likely to be worn by the jammers in the ascenders. But I dare say they'd work directly on a halyard.

Do consider how you're going to get down - I've opted for an abseiling descender and a separate loose rope (the ascent one will be tight) so I don't need any outside help.

Pete

 

[knuterikt]

if you are prepared to work without a safety line you can do it single handed.

You can/should use a safety line if you single hand also.
Use a halyard tie one end to a harness and belay the hauling part to the harness also, take in the slack as you go up.

There are also some climbing equipment around that you can use for the safety line.

 

[knuterikt]

Rather than sit-stand, I'm going to have two independent foot-loops (albeit with a loose lanyard between them to avoid doing the splits!) so I can just step up like climbing a ladder. Some light elastic to the harness will pull each ascender up the rope when its foot-loop is unweighted. Of course one foot-loop needs to be longer than the other so that each ascender has its own stretch of rope in which to work, without trying to pass each other.

I tried this before a made the contraption in my post, the plate feels more stable in use.

 

[Neil_Y]

Simple cheap and effective (and safe) I have always used this and the rope is probably already on the boat.
You need two short lengths of rope smaller diameter than the fixed rope as in the photo. It's also very quick to set up if you have to go up in a hurry, leg loop to top prusik and harness to one below. stand, lift bottom knot, sit, lift top knot. You can attach this to any fixed rope, best if it is tensioned to the deck before you start. It's also kinder to the rope than a cam cleat.

The danger with any ascender set up, is it is usually possible to open the cam to put the rope in or to come down, some you can lock open. Fine if you are climbing and have good routines/checks but more casual use in a hurry just be very careful, or have a safety line. Accidents are not often failed rope but more likely human error.

The prusik knot
http://www.animatedknots.com/prusik/index.php

 

[fireball]

Enough is enough. To go aloft at the moment I have a **** "sit in" bosuns chair. Fine to sit back in, but this means I sit there whilst people puff and sweat on my fairly small winches. I can't really add much as I end up slipping forward.

I also need 3 people for safety...one in the cockpit tailing the main halyard through the closed clutch and round a genoa cleat, and two at the mast base on the genoa halyard, one to grind, one to tail. In practice I try and shimmy up as much as I can, invariably meaning I slip forward out of the chair and it's very uncomfortable, plus having people at the mast base isn't ideal if any tools get dropped on the way up.

What I want is this. A climbing style harness with some kind of ascender mechanism, so I can make the genoa halyard off securely, make my own way up that, whilst just one other person tails the main halyard from the cockpit as before. More comfy, less effort, safer.

I notice that even budget stores such as Go Outdoors and Decathlon are now selling climbing gear. Can any experienced climbers point me to the gear I need...it has to be cheaper than buying a dedicated yotty specific product. I just want one of those "stand up, sit down, stand up" slidey ascender systems.

Thanks

As a dinghy man I assume you have a trapeze harness?

I use my one from RS800 days - connected to an Ascender - and another Ascender connected to a plank of wood..

IIRC total cost was ~£80 as I already had the plank of wood, rope and the trapeze harness!

Method for setting up is to hoist a static line on one halyard - this is because the Ascenders are like cleats - but can damage the line - may as well do this on a cheaper static line than the expensive halyard! The static line is tied off really tight to make pulling the ascenders up easier.

The Ascenders go on to the static line - I then connect to those and a safety line - and then I can walk up the mast.

The plank of wood is very handy as you can hoist it quite high so you can stand on it at the top of the mast and get your whole upper body above the working area (assuming you're trying to get to the top!) - it's far more comfortable than standing in rope or webbing as you're not crushing your feet ..
I've been at the top of the mast for about an hour at a time - only had to come down as I was starting to feel seasick!

For the descent I just get lowered on the safety line - you can walk down on the Ascenders, but it's a faff and I'm too tight to buy a descender!

I don't go up the mast by myself - well - I do go up by myself - but there is someone else onboard ... just incase ! But the most they have to do is lower me ...

 

[mirror image]

Have a look on youtube at some of the methods used by Aborists for tree climbing.

They seem to take a more simple approach, often using prussic knots etc.

I looked a while a go and I remember finding it useful.

 

[prv]

The danger with any ascender set up, is it is usually possible to open the cam to put the rope in

True. However, the ones I linked to above (and presumably the Petzl they're copying) can take a carabiner through the upper hole which locks the rope into the device, and that's how I plan to use it.

Pete

 

[jimi]

try
http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/petzl-c...m_source=google&utm_medium=SEO+product+search

or

http://www.rockrun.com/products/Wild-Country-Ropeman-2-(2011).html

 

[Norman_E]

I have made this, use it in combination with a bosuns chair.
Put my feet into the two holes and stand up, helper take in the slack on the halyard.
Lift the step with my foot and raise up....
Made of a salvaged piece of plywood and some HW.

That sort of thing works very well. My own version is a bit different, made of oak in the shape of a cross with a rope clutch on the vertical part. A big advantage is that I can use it to stand up and see over the mast head, something I cannot do with the bosuns chair alone.

 

[Tim O]

As a climber I have used various systems for climbing a fixed rope.

Handled Ascenders (sometimes called Jumar clamps) such as those made by Petzl are the easiest and quickest and most expensive - they are really designed for people doing lots of rope climbing such as cavers, big-wall climbers and high altitude climbers where speed is of the essence.

The more basic models such as those referred to earlier are fine for less frequent use and short distances like the average yacht mast.

The cheapest are of course rope loops (prusik loops) used with one of several knots (classic, french prusik etc). There is one knot whose name I forget that incorporates a carabiner as a handle - works very well.

The Wild Countryt Ropeman referred to in the previous post is a great little device and what i carry all the time in the alps for hauling out of a crevasse should I ever fall in...in combination with a prusik loop for a foot-loop to push up in it works very well and this system is cheap and lightweight.

As with all these devices read the manual, and read some climbing books or websites or better still get someone to demo the whole system. If you get it wrong you may well take a Desmond and risk serious injury or death

 

[afterpegassus]

As a climber I have used various systems for climbing a fixed rope.

There is one knot whose name I forget that incorporates a carabiner as a handle - works very well.

Bachman???? but I can only get three fingers into the krab;

and for those who like toothed devices for ascending, remember that they are very awkward to use in reverse and that a change over to a descender is likely to be required when you wish to get back to the deck.

 

[Tim O]

Ah...its called a Bachmann Hitch and its on the animated knots website here http://www.animatedknots.com/prusik/index.php

 

[Tim O]

A very good point that afterpegasuss raises.

Usually in climbing you are ascending a rope to get somewhere....a belay, top of crag, ledge etc, where you will then tie/clip into some anchor points before making your next move, whether that be up or down.

On a boat, you are going to be wanting to come down having done whatever it is you went up for in the first place.

Swapping over devices to come down the SAME rope is possible but fiddly, and you run the risk of making a mistake....a second rope to which you can clip a descender (abseiling device of some kind), and take the weight on that before you unweight and unclip from your top ascending device is ideal as already pointed out.

Oh, and just remember more climbing accidents happen when abseiling than climbing.....usually due to human error/misuse of equipment...so get it right!

Also, if you are going to get climbing sit harness, make sure its a nice comfy one if you are going to spend long periods up the mast.......as you are hopefully not going to be taking large falls in it you could use a cheap second hand one.....but do not then use it for actual rock climbing where you might take big falls onto it! Climbing harnesses are designed to take big "dynamic" falls in conjunction with climbing ropes which have an inbuilt stretch factor to act as a shock absorber - for going up and down a mast you are not going to be taking big falls and can use "static" (non-stretchy) ropes like sailing ropes

 

[prv]

A very good point that afterpegasuss raises.

It is a good point, such a good one that I'd already mentioned it in post 4

Pete

 

[panthablue]

The best system I have seen was used by a boat rigger.

He just had a simple block a tackle. A double block at one end and a single block at the other. the single block had the bosun's chair attached to it.

He attached the double block to our main halyard, and hauled it to the top of the mast. He then sat in the bosun's chair and hauled himself up. When he got to the top he tied a knot around the ropes with the tail end while he did the work needed to do.

He also said that if he slipped, he just needed to grab the bunch of ropes to stop him falling.

It worked very well. I was most impressed.

 

[Tim O]

I know Pete.....good points are ALWAYS worth reiterating, in case they didn't sink in first time....three times is usually effective...

 

[tokoloshe]

A caving bum harness and two mountaineering ascendeurs (ascenders), a secure halyard and look out "Jack and the beanstork".