Cheap, cheerful and warm Wintering

[BoyBlue49]

With free anchoring in the Faro delter, no heat, occasional gallon of petrol for the outboard plus food and drink will be your regular outgoings.
How much do you both eat and drink in a week ? £80 - £100 so that would be say £350 - £450 pcm.
Repairs and maintenance, occasional marina on top, I would say you could probably do it with care.
Many places to anchor free in Spain or Portugal with shelter. Lots of British boats in the Mar Minor.

 

[GrahamM376]

Hi David
We been doing this for quite a while now and to be honest 500 to 600 pounds a month is pushing it if you are including things like winter mooring , fuel ,food and repair in this sum .
Since we left our winter marina in March we have spend 30 euros in mooring fee and another 150 euros in a marina in Tunisia while we did some work on the boat . so as you can see we really do anchor most of the year around .
Our food and wine bill comes to about 100 euros a weeks that's not including eating out which we do about once or twice every month , manly because we like eating on board and having friends on board . If you just take a very cheap winter marina you looking at 1200 for a six months that in it self is 100 euros a month , So as you can see just in food and drink and our winter marina , alone we spending almost as much as you are expecting to spend on every thing each PCM .
I would say 350 euros a week if you don't get any really bad problems and that a very min , we don't keep record on what we spend , we did try but we give in but I guess we spend a min of 18000 to 20000 a year all in . That's without any big expenses on the boat . Last winter a new set of sails set us back 6000 pounds .

I agree £500-£600 is pushing it but OTOH your £18-£20k is as much as we spend on average, including UK house expenses and 2 cars, one in UK and one in Portugal, air fares etc. We spend around 9 months on the boat and 3 months in UK. Certainly our food costs in Portugal are far cheaper than your quoted 100 euro per week and eating out can be ridiculously cheap when avoiding tourist spots and marinas - a cup of coffee (with milk) can vary from 80 cents in local cafe to 4 euro in a Vilamoura beach bar. That 4 euro can buy lunch if you stick to plate of the day and know where to go.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I agree £500-£600 is pushing it but OTOH your £18-£20k is as much as we spend on average, including UK house expenses and 2 cars, one in UK and one in Portugal, air fares etc. We spend around 9 months on the boat and 3 months in UK. Certainly our food costs in Portugal are far cheaper than your quoted 100 euro per week and eating out can be ridiculously cheap when avoiding tourist spots and marinas - a cup of coffee (with milk) can vary from 80 cents in local cafe to 4 euro in a Vilamoura beach bar. That 4 euro can buy lunch if you stick to plate of the day and know where to go.

Hi Graham
Firstly we don't live or do half as much as other do so our expenses are not what I would call normal for live aboard . Also we don't keep account so I only guessing how much we spend .
Yes I agree 18 k sounds a lot but believe me it soon goes , my 18 K guess include every thing we spend .
If one want to sit in an anchorage all year round and not go any where or do any thing , just pay out for petrol for the dinghy there no doubt one can live on just food money plus insurance alone but what a awful life that would be , come to think of it , it could even be cheaper if you don't pay for insurances for the boat .

example , a trip back home to see the family , quick cal , cheap of cheap flights , , easy jet which I will be taken this year 65 each way , bus to airport 30 each way , I don't have a car at the other end so I will be hiring one 150 for the week another 60 plus petrol , B and B for the week 240 some small present for the grandchildren another 60 , that's 690 that with out evening meals and going out some evenings with the family , before you know it you have wiped out an thousand pound . That's some thing people don't take into account , my partner will be doing the same but to holland so there another thousand . We do this twice a year thats 4000 that's got to be found from some where .
It true if you do t never go back you don't have that expense .
Fuel ....
Even though we have a sailing boat and we sail as much as we can there is many a day we have to motor manly because there no wind . Fuel now at 1.5 / 1.60 avg some places a lot more , Italy 1.80 lt ,it not long before you wipe out another 1000 pounds on fuel a year . Seen a lot ? 1000 is about 625 lts at x 2.5 to the hour over 10 months that about 6.5 hours a weeks not really a lot ,
Insurance that's another 1000 . Just food alone a good 5200 much more if we countered , I bet it be around 7000 , winter marina cost any thing for 1200 to 2000 depend where you go , off course that depend on the boat size .
Winter time we socialises not a lot but we do , we will go out for a meal once a week and maybe go out for a drink another night ,invite people on board for meals and drinks spending 60 at less a week before you know it that another 1000 gone . You have just wiped out well over 13000 as a min . If you take in the extra food and marina cost more like 15000 .
This haven't taken in account repairs to the boat , medical bills , hauling out , hard standing , power and water in the winter , touring thought out the summer ( just having a look at some old ruins can cost you 15 each now )that without getting there , busses , car hire , bike hire , mooring and harbour fees , Internet , phone calls the list just goes on and on , and as I said , we don't think we live that well off compared to others , so yes 18000 k will soon run away with you , last year we went well over the 18k new sails and new anchor an extra 6500k I agree you don't buy new sails every year , but not a year goes by that there always some thing that need to be replaces .

Maybe 20k is just a bit too much , my last posting I said around 350 pw , (18k ) and if you aloud for that you won't go very wrong , it leave you a bit for other stuff or another year .

Off course as some have said , you could always find a mud mooring in the middle of no where and never go or do any thing , never come back to see family , never start your engine so you won't need fuel , or explore places , not keep the boat in good order , eat only salad , not haul out and stay away from wintering in a marina even for a short while , taken all that in consideration maybe it be best to not leave home in the first place .which Ever way don't expect you wife / partner to still be there this time next year . Living aboard should be fun and enjoyable , not a prison sentence .


You could look at it any way , get a cheap one year contact in a marina for 3500 plus another 5000 for food and you you could be a liveaboud for as little as 8500 .
www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com

 

[david100952]

Wow! I am sorry to have stirred up such poles of opinion. The choice for me is fairly simple, given I have the same budget to survive in UK or the Med. If I am on a small pension in the UK I can just about pay the rent and buy the necessities but certainly not afford to pay for mooring and storing a yacht. I don't fancy trying to liveaboard in the UK so the options, provided I'm careful and reliably informed - point very much in one direction.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Wow! I am sorry to have stirred up such poles of opinion. The choice for me is fairly simple, given I have the same budget to survive in UK or the Med. If I am on a small pension in the UK I can just about pay the rent and buy the necessities but certainly not afford to pay for mooring and storing a yacht. I don't fancy trying to liveaboard in the UK so the options, provided I'm careful and reliably informed - point very much in one direction.

Hi David
There no need to be sorry mate , there lots of opinion on what it cost to be a Liveaboard , I suppose a lot depend on the life you wish to live , while living on board ,what commitments you have back in the Uk , it seen that your single guy , so that can cut you day to day living quite a bit , if your happy not having to travel that again remove a lot of the expense . If all you want to do is live on a boat but not in the UK then a cheap berth or a safe anchoring spot and the cost of your food and you can do it at very little cost ,

I wish you luck

Edit .. Sorry just seen your not a single guy . One place where it warm most of the year around and where there is normally a liveabourd community and is reasonable priced is Almerimar south coast of Spain .
I would forget a full time anchorages , women need company now and then .

www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com

 

[nimbusgb]

Greece, winter on a boat. Bloody freezing!

 

[dod]

I am sure that this topic has been covered before, but times (and taxes) change!

My first inclination was to Winter in the Canaries, but I read somewhere that the Spanish authorities are intent on making this less attractive by banning anchoring anywhere and everywhere around the islands and by screwing anybody who stays too long (with hefty bills based on the value of their ship)???

Cost is my main concern. I thought maybe Portugal, Greece, Turkey or Italy? Secure hard standing would be a bonus (but only if they let you stay aboard whilst dry, too). I am not fussed about transport links or buzzing nightlife, but a good supermarket in walking distance would be useful.

Might you other live aboard forumites post with details of costs? You never know: the Marinameisters might be watching...we could start a price war...

I am 29' loa.

Like everything else in life you will find a way to live well with the finances you have at your disposal. Any comments from others of how much it costs them is going to be either an encouraging or discouraging guide only. If you really want to do it then get on and do it. If you need so much reassurances then it is probable that you will not go ahead. Think positive and be a little adventurous, make the discoveries for yourself. That is the way to liveaboard and enjoy it. Forums are fine for answering certain queries but too many people seem to rely on them for info rather than taking the trouble to find out for themselves.
It may or may not turn out to be what you expected or as inexpensive as you thought but the satisfaction of doing it on your own is what it's about. By the way I am not sitting in an armchair in my cosy house writing this

 

[Tradewinds]

Like everything else in life you will find a way to live well with the finances you have at your disposal. Any comments from others of how much it costs them is going to be either an encouraging or discouraging guide only. If you really want to do it then get on and do it. If you need so much reassurances then it is probable that you will not go ahead. Think positive and be a little adventurous, make the discoveries for yourself. That is the way to liveaboard and enjoy it. Forums are fine for answering certain queries but too many people seem to rely on them for info rather than taking the trouble to find out for themselves.
It may or may not turn out to be what you expected or as inexpensive as you thought but the satisfaction of doing it on your own is what it's about. By the way I am not sitting in an armchair in my cosy house writing this

Well said.

 

[david100952]

Like everything else in life you will find a way to live well with the finances you have at your disposal. Any comments from others of how much it costs them is going to be either an encouraging or discouraging guide only. If you really want to do it then get on and do it. If you need so much reassurances then it is probable that you will not go ahead. Think positive and be a little adventurous, make the discoveries for yourself. That is the way to liveaboard and enjoy it. Forums are fine for answering certain queries but too many people seem to rely on them for info rather than taking the trouble to find out for themselves.
It may or may not turn out to be what you expected or as inexpensive as you thought but the satisfaction of doing it on your own is what it's about. By the way I am not sitting in an armchair in my cosy house writing this

Heartfelt thanks for the definitive answer - I would leave tomorrow if it were possible but SWMBO doesn't collect her pension til April and between now and then I need to convince her I/we are not mad or impetuous. Or to put it another way: Can you pass off a dream as a practical solution!!!!
Many Thanks

 

[rustybarge]

Heartfelt thanks for the definitive answer - I would leave tomorrow if it were possible but SWMBO doesn't collect her pension til April and between now and then I need to convince her I/we are not mad or impetuous. Or to put it another way: Can you pass off a dream as a practical solution!!!!
Many Thanks

The best advice you got was to winter on the Algarve.
east of Faro the Ria formsa stretches for miles and miles; it's like an canal formed by the sand dunes. You can anchor out there free charge, or just beach your boat on a spring tide and leave it there: it's totally sheltered.
Insurance: don't need it.
marina charges: none.

i spent two winters in Tavira half way along the coast east of Faro. Pretty traditional town with no bucket and spade tourists, two supermarkets, 1 hr airport, very cheap with friendly locals and lots of expats......

 

[GrahamM376]

Insurance: don't need it.
.

Until inspected by Policia Maritima. The fine would take a large chunk out of annual budget.

 

[rustybarge]

Until inspected by Policia Maritima. The fine would take a large chunk out of annual budget.

I didn't realise insurance was compulsory in Portugal? I was under the impression it's the same as the UK, but marinas insist on it for public liability reasons?

 

[25931]

I didn't realise insurance was compulsory in Portugal? I was under the impression it's the same as the UK, but marinas insist on it for public liability reasons?

Graham is quite right. Third party is a legal requirement.

 

[GrahamM376]

I didn't realise insurance was compulsory in Portugal? I was under the impression it's the same as the UK, but marinas insist on it for public liability reasons?

Third party insurance is compulsory as is a long list of safety equipment for anyone staying over 6 months. Boats which have arrived by sea are treated as being in "ocean" category.

Lots of useful info on Lagos Navigators site - http://liveinfo.lagosnavigators.net...uguese-safety-equipment-standards-for-yachts/

 

[25931]

Third party insurance is compulsory as is a long list of safety equipment for anyone staying over 6 months. Boats which have arrived by sea are treated as being in "ocean" category.

Lots of useful info on Lagos Navigators site - http://liveinfo.lagosnavigators.net...uguese-safety-equipment-standards-for-yachts/

There are those of us who dispute some of this. According to the law the equipment required depends on where you are sailing at the time e.g. in the Ria Formosa oceangoing equipment is not required. and there is no provision in the law referring to a six month period. The fact that a vessel is on the SSR dosen't mean that it has sailed from the UK. It can have been bought in Spain.

 

[jdc]

I give N Africa a miss except for the occasional visit to Ceuta...

May I ask why? I'm not doubting you - I can think of many potential reasons - but what was/were the bad experience(s) you had? I've always experienced courtesy and friendliness, but, so far, never visited by boat, only by 'plane.

 

[GrahamM376]

May I ask why? I'm not doubting you - I can think of many potential reasons - but what was/were the bad experience(s) you had? I've always experienced courtesy and friendliness, but, so far, never visited by boat, only by 'plane.

No bad experiences as such. Enjoy Ceuta but that's not Morocco, being formerly Portuguese and now Spanish. Smir disppointing but Tetuan interesting, Tangier street traders can be a pain and much of the place needs demolishing but, it's just that I don't like the place and culture, much prefer southern African countries.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Monistir .
Very easy going , not problem with clearing in and out , police and custom friendly , a bottle so whiskey help smooth the way , marina cheap and help full , fuel very cheap 55c a lts in 2014 lift out and in very cheap . Well worth a visit .

www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com

 

[dslittle]

Hi Graham
Firstly we don't live or do half as much as other do so our expenses are not what I would call normal for live aboard . Also we don't keep account so I only guessing how much we spend .
Yes I agree 18 k sounds a lot but believe me it soon goes , my 18 K guess include every thing we spend .
If one want to sit in an anchorage all year round and not go any where or do any thing , just pay out for petrol for the dinghy there no doubt one can live on just food money plus insurance alone but what a awful life that would be , come to think of it , it could even be cheaper if you don't pay for insurances for the boat .

example , a trip back home to see the family , quick cal , cheap of cheap flights , , easy jet which I will be taken this year 65 each way , bus to airport 30 each way , I don't have a car at the other end so I will be hiring one 150 for the week another 60 plus petrol , B and B for the week 240 some small present for the grandchildren another 60 , that's 690 that with out evening meals and going out some evenings with the family , before you know it you have wiped out an thousand pound . That's some thing people don't take into account , my partner will be doing the same but to holland so there another thousand . We do this twice a year thats 4000 that's got to be found from some where .
It true if you do t never go back you don't have that expense .
Fuel ....
Even though we have a sailing boat and we sail as much as we can there is many a day we have to motor manly because there no wind . Fuel now at 1.5 / 1.60 avg some places a lot more , Italy 1.80 lt ,it not long before you wipe out another 1000 pounds on fuel a year . Seen a lot ? 1000 is about 625 lts at x 2.5 to the hour over 10 months that about 6.5 hours a weeks not really a lot ,
Insurance that's another 1000 . Just food alone a good 5200 much more if we countered , I bet it be around 7000 , winter marina cost any thing for 1200 to 2000 depend where you go , off course that depend on the boat size .
Winter time we socialises not a lot but we do , we will go out for a meal once a week and maybe go out for a drink another night ,invite people on board for meals and drinks spending 60 at less a week before you know it that another 1000 gone . You have just wiped out well over 13000 as a min . If you take in the extra food and marina cost more like 15000 .
This haven't taken in account repairs to the boat , medical bills , hauling out , hard standing , power and water in the winter , touring thought out the summer ( just having a look at some old ruins can cost you 15 each now )that without getting there , busses , car hire , bike hire , mooring and harbour fees , Internet , phone calls the list just goes on and on , and as I said , we don't think we live that well off compared to others , so yes 18000 k will soon run away with you , last year we went well over the 18k new sails and new anchor an extra 6500k I agree you don't buy new sails every year , but not a year goes by that there always some thing that need to be replaces .

Maybe 20k is just a bit too much , my last posting I said around 350 pw , (18k ) and if you aloud for that you won't go very wrong , it leave you a bit for other stuff or another year .

Off course as some have said , you could always find a mud mooring in the middle of no where and never go or do any thing , never come back to see family , never start your engine so you won't need fuel , or explore places , not keep the boat in good order , eat only salad , not haul out and stay away from wintering in a marina even for a short while , taken all that in consideration maybe it be best to not leave home in the first place .which Ever way don't expect you wife / partner to still be there this time next year . Living aboard should be fun and enjoyable , not a prison sentence .


You could look at it any way , get a cheap one year contact in a marina for 3500 plus another 5000 for food and you you could be a liveaboud for as little as 8500 .
www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com

If Carlsberg did answers this would be it!!!

 

[chuckr]

May I ask why? I'm not doubting you - I can think of many potential reasons - but what was/were the bad experience(s) you had? I've always experienced courtesy and friendliness, but, so far, never visited by boat, only by 'plane.

Totally agree -- we wintered over in Port Yasmine last year and will again this year. Safe and inexpensive with great food stores. we are actually looking to save money there vs our last 6 months sailing italy, albania, montenegro, croatia, and malta. Oh and the weather is good, People are friendly and very helpful.