Cheap 2nd Hand Diesel Engine (about 6-10HP) What to be Wary of?

[davey]

Yanmar Problems

Hi Springer

One more point make sure spare parts are still available any engine you buy and that the extra weight wont ruin your boats sailing ability.
I have a Yanmar 1GM10 very light and small in a 27`yacht and am very pleased with it but they not cheap

Pete

I actually prefer playing with engines instead of getting seasick, however re the Yanmar 1GM10, although many people think that they are marvellous I'm not impressed with them in the slightest. Firstly they are raw water cooled, secondly the crankshaft pulley which is made of grey cast iron (strong in compression but weak in extension) splits. It is a bum design that uses low tensile strength material on a taper fit. To ensure that it will split there is a keyway there just ready to start off the crack. If the pulley had been made of malleable white cast iron (often called semi-steel) it might have been OK but as usual these days you just can't seem to get the right staff. Ruggerini MD150 engines do exactly the same thing but on those engines there is the possibility of machining the spigot and shrinking a steel band over the crack. All the Yanmar pulleys that I've seen are the same bad design so it looks as if I'll have to turn up a new one on my 100 year old lathe (its was made to be driven by an overhead lineshaft and its calibrated in 64ths of an inch - not the easiest thing to use but its done some good jobs )
The engines of choice have to be the Kubota Super Mini Series. The Z482 model is used in the Aixam 500 micro car and these cars are often disposed of because of their poor performance. Two firms that marinised the Z482 are Beta and Nanni but there may be others. None of these stuff is cheap but as a boatyard owner once said "Do you know what BOAT stands for?" (I had to say that I didn't) "Bring out another thousand!" he said!

If one can stand the noise there are Chinese made diesels, air cooled but brand new for about £300.

 

[Severnman]

I once replaced a Vire petrol with a Yanmar 1GM10 in a previous boat. My present boat is fitted with one. Cant comment on daveys problems as never experienced. What I can say that although parts etc are on the pricey side (hey you are a boatowner!) its a pretty bombproof engine that is easy for a novice to work on. I replaced the Vire cos it let me down once too often. Quite frankly the thought of an inboard petrol engine now fills me with horror.

 

[bryantee]

While the MD 1 is a reliable old engine, certain of the parts are unobtainable at any price, other's just come with the usual Volvo Premium (double the number you first thought of, then add a contingency). When mine packed up, the spares I could get would have cost over £1000 and that didn't include the exhaust manifold as they are permanantly stock out.

I'd go for a Yanmar if you can find one....had to buy mine new and I'm overjoyed by it, despite the cost. I don't know what goes wrong with them.....I've even lost my handbook it's been so long since I looked at it. It's raw water cooled, so there's no heat exchanger to go wrong. Everything else seems pretty simple. The local Dealer on the Hamble may even have a recon engine ....

#e

go for a yanmar 1gm . if you can get one with hand start all the better. virtually bullet proof. get the injector serviced.change the belt and off you go.

 

[FullCircle]

A last thought....
Under absolutely NO Circumstances buy a BMW D7 or D12 if offered. Mine was a 3 year 68kg mooring weight.

FWIW, I agree, have another look at the Vire, or get a 1GM Yanmar.

 

[Signed Out]

Pretty amazing to see people offering purchase advice on a 6 year old thread...

But interesting to me all the same. MAY be looking soon. Gulp.

 

[davey]

Cheap Marine Engine?

[ QUOTE ]
..... I bought a second hand Bukh 20. This started and ran fine. Put it in the boat (this is quiet a majoir operation in itself!) started it up again ---- and the flywheel came off, damaging the crank. .

[/ QUOTE ]

Blimey what a nightmare, I remember as a boy playing with a gyroscope and later seeing one of the Royal Institution's Christmas lectures showing the huge power stored in llarger spinning gyroscopes -
I think you are very lucky the flywheel didn't go through the bottom of the boat - how fast was the engine going?

As to flywheels coming off it can also happen with VM diesel engines used in cars. Possibly poor assembly or possibly people labouring the engine. Years ago I had a Commer 15cwt van. A mate tipped me off about a possible fault with it as allegedly a bloke in Acton had been decapitated by a similar engine in a car. Allegedly him and his mates had the bonnet open and were tuning and revving the engine when the fan came off and chopped the blokes head off! When I checked my fan I discovered that the wrong bolts had been used. They were too short and only engaged by about two threads! Whoops that could ruin your whole day so I purchased some new and longer bolts. Of course in the old days fans were made of heavy steel and they could pack a mighty punch. External fan alternators are also dangerous as the fans can cut through non-metallic items as if they were made of butter.

As to marine engines if one can accept an air-cooled engine there are cheap Chinese copies of Yanmar industrial engines on sale for about £250 to £350 (new). It would be worth paying the extra for the electric start version as this would enable 12 volt power to be obtained. Volvo engines have costly spares (don't they all!). Sometimes car engines can be marinised but most will employ timing belts (AKA cam-belts) so IMHO they are no good. Good Luck.

PS I wonder if the seller of the Bukh removed the flywheel to make the engine lighter to move. I'd guess that he did and only put the bolts back finger tight.

 

[NickRobinson]

[ QUOTE ]
..... I bought a second hand Bukh 20. This started and ran fine. Put it in the boat (this is quiet a majoir operation in itself!) started it up again ---- and the flywheel came off, damaging the crank. .

[/ QUOTE ]

Blimey what a nightmare, I remember as a boy playing with a gyroscope and later seeing one of the Royal Institution's Christmas lectures showing the huge power stored in llarger spinning gyroscopes -
I think you are very lucky the flywheel didn't go through the bottom of the boat - how fast was the engine going?

Ahh.. I remember those- Prof Laithwaite. Thought he had disproved Newtonian physics...

 

[Spyro]

I wouldn't go to all the bother with a small boat. Bolt on an outboard bracket get yourself a decent 4stroke outboard and away you go.
It will be quieter and you will have more space in the boat you won't need to bother about gearboxes stern gear and propellers.

 

[Lakesailor]

PS I wonder if the seller of the Bukh removed the flywheel to make the engine lighter to move. I'd guess that he did and only put the bolts back finger tight.

We'll probably never know as the thread is 3 years old.

 

[Simondjuk]

I suggest a Nomis Fission Eight mini reactor. Clean, quiet, efficient and runs for thirty years on one set of fuel rods.


There, that'll do for when this next pops up in 2018 or so.

 

[davey]

BMW D7

A last thought....
Under absolutely NO Circumstances buy a BMW D7 or D12 if offered. Mine was a 3 year 68kg mooring weight.

FWIW, I agree, have another look at the Vire, or get a 1GM Yanmar.

What is wrong with the BMW D7? (It is after all a Hatz HE673) These are a super little engine (not mixed-metal like a Petter Mini-6) OK the OEM flywheel generator is extremely iffy but this problem can be worked around.

 

[davey]

Power Source

Petrol inboards are the dodgy ones. For example "Captain Bligh" of Plymouth told me of a nasty accident that happened to a Plymouth sailing school skipper. The skipper had about ten cadets on deck when he unlocked the boat and went below smoking a cigarette (very bad idea) The boat had been bouncing about on its moorings for two weeks and petrol fumes must have accumulated. An explosion occurred which blew-off the deck and catapulted the cadets into the water. The skipper died of his injuries and in his case "smoking kills" certainly was the case.

Another case that I saw for myself involved a so called speedboat which was really a heavy flat bottomed launch. The driver was thrashing it presumably to attract customers when it blew up! Presumably something had got hot enough to ignite the fumes. The stern was blown-off and it sank! It happened somewhere on the south coast when I was on holiday with my parents. Good job he didn't have any passengers that time as he used to advertise "Speedboat Rides" on a blackboard.

 

[ffiill]

Sorry disagree about petrol-same as gas so you are careful with it-lots of people put it in their car-I once saw a car with an electrical fault blow a safe distance away from me-I once ignited 5 litres outside my back door.
Small petrol/two strokes are far easier to manage in my opinion. My old boat was fitted with a Coventry Victor 9 hp flat twin-no problem.
There are several renovated 9 hp Stuart Turners currently for sale on e bay for under £300

 

[davey]

Outboard Power?

Presumably you have considered changing to outboard power. The advantages being lighter weight better sailing performance (no drag when lifted) much cheaper and of course you can reclaim all that stowage space under the cockpit.
Of course the boat will have a better retail value with a diesel but with smell.

Now that you have an inboard engine I suppose it is worth sticking with another one but certainly if you were building a 21fter, O/B is the way to go.
good luck olewill PS of course 2 cylinder is a lot smooter if you can find and fit one. PSS I have sailed on a 28fter with a Honda stationary engine air cooled fitted seemed OK.

Beware of relying on an outboard as a yachting friend made the gaffe of removing his inboard diesel to save weight. The theory was that a motor would only be needed to enter harbours but the theory didn't work. The boat was a Westerly 28 (fin keel) and the engine that was evicted was a three cylinder Volvo, an MD3B if I remember correctly. The big difference between inboard and outboard is that with the inboard the propeller is deep in the water and rarely ever does it see air. Not so with the outboard as unless the cockpit has a motor well the motor will be at the extreme end of the boat and in a big sea the propeller will come out of the water (possibly the motor will over-rev and throw a rod) In the end it was realised that another diesel engine was needed. A Yanmar 1GM10 was purchased in Venezuela and it did the job OK. As it only weighed about 70 kilos it was much lighter than the Volvo hence the boats payload of water and food was not eaten into too much. If one only wants to day-sail on coasts and estuaries the "Woolworths" solutions will do OK but for serious blue-water live-aboard cruising, things need to be pretty much Milspec.

Someone I knew used to have a Moody thirty footer with deep fin keel. The boat didn't suit him at all because he used to worry about it falling over whilst he was eating his pub-lunches. The boat was swapped for one with twin keels and he was then much happier. As to his cruising range. Falmouth to the Isles of Scilly was though to be an epic voyage. The term "horses-for-courses" comes to mind!

As to designing twenty one footers solely for outboards I have to disagree. I was asked by "Captain Bligh" to find him a boat, a pocket cruiser actually and the brief was fin keel, inboard diesel, roller reefing, ready to go not needing work and a very tight budget. A Robert Ives Four-21 was bought and after some tremendous shake-downs it was eventually rehabilitated into a fine boat. Problems were (1) A sellers survey "all chain-plates secure" that was not worth the paper it was written on. (2) Black sludge in the fuel that became agitated in rough seas thanks to an incorrect weather forecast. (3) Water intake strainers that were fine in the UK incapable of dealing with Portuguese jellyfish. (4) No engine overheat alarm. The engine is a Petter Mini-6 that was greatly despised in the beginning because of repeated head gasket failures. It turns out that there are a lot of pattern parts on the market that just don't last. The best gaskets seem to be genuine Petter new-old-stock containing asbestos. Anyhow the boat has now done 7000 nmls and is now Caribbean Cruising! For the Ives a Yanmar 1GM10 is really too big. The engine of choice would be a Bukh DV7 (AKA Farymann 18W Yellow River Star) £s£s£s!

 

[davey]

Beware of petrol fumes!

I once replaced a Vire petrol with a Yanmar 1GM10 in a previous boat. My present boat is fitted with one. Cant comment on daveys problems as never experienced. What I can say that although parts etc are on the pricey side (hey you are a boatowner!) its a pretty bombproof engine that is easy for a novice to work on. I replaced the Vire cos it let me down once too often. Quite frankly the thought of an inboard petrol engine now fills me with horror.

Yes I agree! "Captain Bligh" warned me about petrol engines as he knew of a Sea Cadets sailing yacht that was blown to pieces. Allegedly there were about ten cadets standing on deck when the skipper went below smoking a cigarette. The boat had been bouncing around on its moorings for a fortnight and the cabin must have been filled with petrol fumes. BOOM! the explosion blew-off the deck catapulting the cadets into the water. The skipper was killed.

 

[ianat182]

Mark. As you're a local I suggest you take a trip to Universal where you'll find Scott Sandford at T.S Marine. He fits a number of new Beta engines and may have a contact for the engine he's taking out now and again.
The original Volvo engines are good and reliable when working but are now about 30-40 years old with the problem of spares not being made or stocked even at RK Marine the local agents, or the cheaper source at Keyparts who still do some.
They also tend to be very heavy engines with an external flywheel.
Any change of engine may need you to consider changing propellor and or shaft and bearings/mounts not a cheap way to go either. Perhaps you might get a quote from Scott for an overhaul of your current Vire,seems like your problems stem more from the cooling side rather than unreliability in performing.
Whilst not over keen on a petrol engine I wouldn't give up on it too soon; balance the costs a bit first.

Any of the Nanni,Beta, or Volvo engines are pretty good and you may see elsewhere on these threads mention of the recent M-Power engines that are reckoned to be cheaper or at least comparable, they're Chinese engines and trying to establish a trading base and service in the UK; try a search on threads around last Christmas for contact details.
It is just possible that the Chandlery Barge at Bursledon may have an advert or an item there for a secondhand motor.

iana

 

[vyv_cox]

It may be supposed that Mark has now found a suitable replacement engine, as he posted his request in 2005.

 

[Lakesailor]

On the other hand, his replacement second-hand engine may be knackered by now.

 

[ianat182]

Doh! Still maybe the same applies to any new forum member wanting another engine,so not to worry!

ianat182