Cheap 2nd Hand Diesel Engine (about 6-10HP) What to be Wary of?

mark_turner

mark_turner

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My 21ft Westerly Warwick is currently fitted with a Vire 7 two stroke petrol engine.

It was suffering with lack of cooling water flow and, after a series of attempts at dismantling and then clearing the crud from the exhaust cooling heat exchanger and the cylinder and then cleaning up the impeller casing, all appeared well with loads of water coming out. That was just the start of it – half way into Lymington it started misfiring and when I took a look water was jetting out all over the place – mainly from the side of the cylinder block and into the electrics. Soon stopped –typically just as the two ferries came at me from both directions as well as a whacking great barge – My thanks go out to the chap from the Lymington Yacht Haven who kindly towed me to a nearby buoy.

I think my engine must now be considered ‘dead’ and so want to replace it with something cheap. For safety reasons I’d rather go for a diesel. As it is a sailing boat I am not too fussed if it is a bit noisy and shaky and a bit poor on fuel efficiency but I would like it to be reliable.

Knowing next to nothing about diesel inboards I am trying to acquire some knowledge. Any advice would be appreciated – eg:

 What engines should I be looking at (I have seen Volvo MD1B’s advertised and these seem very cheap and 2001’s which are a lot more – are these any good?
 I also wonder if it is practicable option to buy just an engine and connect it to my existing gearbox cheaply and relatively simply?)
 How do I tell a good second hand engine (I guess I should check compression but how do I know if it is rusted through or if it has any other fatal or expensive problems?)

Thanks
 
What a minefield you are entering.

IMHO stay away from any model of Volvo - especially second hand. Ask yourself "why is it second hand, why does the owner want to change it?" This applies to almost any seconf hand engine out of a boat.

You might look at second hand industrial engines and marinise them yourself. I picked up a 6hp lister/petter air cooled diesel from a plant hire company with less than 300hrs on the hrs counter.

The ideal solution is go for a new engine from someone like Jem Engines website here - they may even be able to do a recon jobbie to suit your needs.

Be very wary of any second hand "marine engine" unless you personally know its history (blocked water ways, internal corrosion etc).
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"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
 
Hi Springer

One more point make sure spare parts are still available any engine you buy and that the extra weight wont ruin your boats sailing ability.
I have a Yanmar 1GM10 very light and small in a 27`yacht and am very pleased with it but they not cheap

Pete
 
Well, I just bought a 36 year old Volvo for £250, and fitted it...

and so far, so good!

Its an MD2, as was its predecessor. These last longer than the later engines on the same crankcase as they rev slower.

This was a quick replacement in mid season. If i get two years out of it I will be happy enough.

I have a secondhand Yanmar 1GM10 in the launch which has been as good as gold for four years now - cost me £1,000.00 I would think that this would be a good make and model to go for - they are common and whilst, being Japanese, the spares are pricey, they don't need many of them. However, whilst it will hand start, many are not fitted with hand start gear.

I would not consider re-using the gearbox. But you might get away with re-using the stern gear.

If it starts and runs, and does not overheat after getting to running temperature, I reckon its a good one.
 
Re: Well, I just bought a 36 year old Volvo for £250, and fitted it...

Presumably you have considered changing to outboard power. The advantages being lighter weight better sailing performance (no drag when lifted) much cheaper and of course you can reclaim all that stowage space under the cockpit.
Of course the boat will have a better retail value with a diesel but with smell.

Now that you have an inboard engine I suppose it is worth sticking with another one but certainly if you were building a 21fter, O/B is the way to go.
good luck olewill PS of course 2 cylinder is a lot smooter if you can find and fit one. PSS I have sailed on a 28fter with a Honda stationary engine air cooled fitted seemed OK.
 
Having gone through this palaver personally ....

a) The first hurdle is to find and engine that fits the slot you have from the Vire .... If you can find an engine similar or even exact in the bearers as the Vire - that saves a considerable amount of money and hard work.
b) The gearbox and shaft can fit next engine but probably not ... best to get a combination of second-hand engine and gearbox together. You may be able to adapt your shaft.
c) Vire - as I had was opposite rotation to the engine that was ID'd to fit my bearers - so prop may have to be changed.
d) Check your bearers - they may have the original Westerly there and been adapted to the smaller Vire footprint ? Westerlys were built with Volvo's in mind generally.

Likely candidates for your bearers are Petter Mini-6 etc. Even the Petter 12. But if you have the original bearers under the Vire mounts you may get away with a Volvo.

IMHO opinion old Volvo's are better left where they stand ... expensive when they go wrong .... A lot of people will say stay away from Petters as they are a light weight engine that is prone to warped / cracked heads and all sorts of problems etc...... split waterways etc. But a good s/hand one is good !

Best is to try and find other Warwick owners and check their set-ups ......... ( most will be Volvo's probably ....)

Despite what a lot say ... many s/hand engines are actuallyu not finished ... yes of course a lot of rubbish is out there, but many were changed due to a bit of smoke, heavy, etc. etc. EG - my Perkins 4-107 was £250 and is a very good runner ... changed from a Rival 31 when it was a bit lazy on starting and smoked a bit .... loads of injector cleaner and good thrash later in my boat .... runs like a sewing machine.

Note you can run an engine out of a boat on blocks .... if set-up right ....

Later new engines if you do look .... Beta, Yanmar etc. are excellent .... but then you are looking at coupling, shaft, prop, gearbox changes etc. .... starts getting expensive.

Finally - I know you are now wary of the Vire ... but I also know that the Vire is easily re-built and may be a cheaper option .... but then again - it is an advantage to change to safer diesel.

Good luck.
 
Cheapest and simplest option is - dont give up on the Vire. From your description it sounds far from dead. Just because water is leaking is no reason to give up on it yet.

Where was the water coming from? There is a core plug in the cylinder water jacket which fails very easily, and is replaced just as easily, costing next to nothing. The cylkinder head and barrel are cast in one, and I never yet heard of one cracking except by frost damage. However, there are just four nuts which hold it on. It lifts off, and provided you ensure the gasket seal is good when you replace it, it is no great task to have it checked, and if necessary repaired. If you replace it, you will need to check that your piston diameter matches the bore, and the rings are able to bed in satisfactorily.

Second hand diesels are tempting, but also as others have said can be a sad route to follow, as you may well be following bad with worse! There are good engines out there, but unless you know how to spot a good one its really a bit of a minefield. The first question is always "Why"? Why was it taken out in the first place. Why has the owner given up on it? Does it run? can you hear it running? Did it start easily? Did it produce smoke? Take the oil filler cap off, block the breather, and put your hand (with a rag) over the breather. Rev the engine to around 2000rpm for 10 seconds. Take your hand away, if there is a 'whoosh' of escaping gas, the engine has badly worn bores and needs an expensive rebuild.

But there are good engines out there: I bought a second hand Bukh 20. This started and ran fine. Put it in the boat (this is quiet a majoir operation in itself!) started it up again ---- and the flywheel came off, damaging the crank. The local Bukh man reckoned that it had been loose and stretched the bolts. I took it off for transport, and further weakened the bolts torquing them down.

Fortunately no damage to the boat as the heavy planks i had used to move it were still in the boat, and they took the weight of the flywheel....

1 second hand crank and a rebuild later, I now have a first class engine. I tell this tale just as an example of what can go wrong.
 
[ QUOTE ]
..... I bought a second hand Bukh 20. This started and ran fine. Put it in the boat (this is quiet a majoir operation in itself!) started it up again ---- and the flywheel came off, damaging the crank. .

[/ QUOTE ]

Blimey what a nightmare, I remember as a boy playing with a gyroscope and later seeing one of the Royal Institution's Christmas lectures showing the huge power stored in llarger spinning gyroscopes -
I think you are very lucky the flywheel didn't go through the bottom of the boat - how fast was the engine going?
 
Do consider switching to an outboard. No installation cost, easy to get at and when it goes wrong you can take it to a workshop rather than calling out an engineer. Plenty of reasonable outboards perfectly capable of driving a 21 footer and think of the space you would gain.
 
While the MD 1 is a reliable old engine, certain of the parts are unobtainable at any price, other's just come with the usual Volvo Premium (double the number you first thought of, then add a contingency). When mine packed up, the spares I could get would have cost over £1000 and that didn't include the exhaust manifold as they are permanantly stock out.

I'd go for a Yanmar if you can find one....had to buy mine new and I'm overjoyed by it, despite the cost. I don't know what goes wrong with them.....I've even lost my handbook it's been so long since I looked at it. It's raw water cooled, so there's no heat exchanger to go wrong. Everything else seems pretty simple. The local Dealer on the Hamble may even have a recon engine ....
 
[ QUOTE ]

I think you are very lucky the flywheel didn't go through the bottom of the boat - how fast was the engine going?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes indeed. Fortunately, the heavy timbers I had been using to support and move it were still in place, and the engine was only a little above tickover, so it didnt go far. Also the design of the engine bay helped: The original heavy bearers designed for a 4cyl Ford, came further forward, and I had only cut them back enough to accomodate the new flywheel, effectively preventing it from flying far.

The engineer said he had had this happen once before, on the workshop test bench: at full throttle the flywheel went across the workshop and straight through a brick wall! So Bukh owners - check your flywheel bolts are secure!!!
 
Gyros and flywheels ...

One ship I know off .......... the gyro broke loose from an old Sperry Gyro-Compass .... they used to be fitted intoi dedicated rooms of their own often abaft the chart-room. This came through a metal bulkhead and embedded into the next chart-room bulkhead ....
 
Re: Gyros and flywheels ...

OK, if we're having this sort of "contest"... Called out to a BR InterCIty 125 with "fire alarms ringing". Got to the remote location on assisting loco and the rear power car engine had given up in a big way. (Paxman Valenta 2250bhp V12)... Hole in crank case, through radiators, body work, and part of the big end was found about 150 yds away; fortunately in open country.
 
Re: Well, I just bought a 36 year old Volvo for £250, and fitted it...

I did this years ago with a Corribee
The inboard petrol engine seized and I got my hands on a 7hp Mercury outboard with a device for charging the battery. It was a very simple installation which saved space and weight - worth considering as outboards are more reliable than they used to be.
 
THANKS! Re: Chp 2nd Hand Diesel Engine What to be Wary of?

(Pushed the send button by mistake then)

But anyway. Thanks to everyone for the excellent responses to this request.

Having read this through I think I will start off by relooking at the Vire. I have thought about where the water was coming from and had a look at the engin and it was, I am pretty sure, from a core plug and from the pipe that connects the exhaust cooler to the block. There still seems to be bags of compression so hopefully I will be OK. I'll just have to work out how to get out the old core plug and fit a new one.
 
It's a shame you didnt google on VIRE, because the main dealer lives near there, and could have fixed your Vire in a jiffy try www.VireEngines.com It's surprising how few marinas know how to find a main dealer nowadays.
 
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