Chartplotter - Have I lost the plot?

[vyv_cox]

That was me...

and I wasn't boasting, just stating a fact. My pontoon is shown on my G-chart and when I am berthed, there I am, plus the track of my arrival, along the canal, through the open bridge, around the ends of half a dozen other pontoons and into my finger. Always.

I don't claim that it is like this everywhere, for example when entering Scheveningen my track always crosses the land a few metres to the south of the entrance channel.

Also, I don't rely on the plotter to anything like this accuracy, particularly when the Mark 1 eyeball clearly shows the plotter to be talking nonsense. But thank you for your concern.

 

[tcm]

Relde worlde RYA courses

As a newly qualified pilot, wife went up to the cockpit of a passenger jet and asked them nicely how they weere navigating, as they didn't seem to have any charts flapping around. "Oh we've got them somewhere!" they smiled and reached down for a bag of charts.

With quite a few developments since 1991, I and many others use electronic as primary, another gps as backup, handheld as another backup, and have paper as utter last resort.

Yes, imho official courses would be a lot better supported if gps/chart plotting was seen as normal, rather than technofangled.

Currently, RYA courses are like doing a maths exam that teaches log tables, permits slide rules, bans calculators and simply doesn't accept the existence of computers.

 

[JeremyF]

Relde worlde RYA courses

I think there has been some change in the RYA courses;however when I did Coastal/Yachtmaster 2 winter ago, only one evening out of 20 covered electronic navigation.

Its a question of balance, and balance didnt seem to have been achieved.

<font color=red>Jeremy Flynn/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif
Dawn Chorus</font color=red>

 

[tcm]

Relde worlde RYA courses

difficult, of course, with there being so many standards, praps like computers. These days the computer is ibm-compatible, with microwsoft software, microsoft word processing and spreadsheet. Easy. Not so easy to teach (ie actually how to do it, the variable only being your location) if various garmin, furuno, magellan etc etc...

 

[tcm]

Re:me too

of course, like using a paper chart for navigating, you wouldn't "navigate" much beyond a waypoint set safely out beyond the harbopur, beyond an entrance channel. After that, gps is used as an accurate speed indicator, if at all. Though for some ports (lymington?) the pontoons are numbered better on some gps charts than in the pilot books...

The point being made is the extent of the data available, not the degree to which one then relies on it beyond all else.

 

[Cornishman]

Relde worlde RYA courses

I am assuming that you refer to the RYA Shore Based THEORY Course. Do you really want to spend many hours of the course studying the theory of electronics, chart plotters, etc? Does an understanding of binary counting really help you to get better value from your Garmin? I think that is why the RYA courses don't include these subjects - the punters don't want or need them.
But, an understanding of the basics of navigation surely helps you to get more from your chart plotter, etc doesn't it?
If you attend a 5 days practical course at any school worth its salt you will be given the practical information and experience you seek on some of the huge array of equipment on the market.

 

[tcm]

Re:really?

I may have been a bit trite in my earlier response! Agreed of course binary theory not necessary. But something up to date might be an idea.

I quote from Yachtmaster book that quote "to use a gps system, switch on, enter ships time and dr position" ....and..."more sophisticated systems have four or five channels..."

Fairly quickly, electronic (as with anything else) requires direct instructioin on exatly what you do, which buttons, and so on. I doubt many RYA instructors, able tho they may be, will have seen many of the latest/diferent bits of kit, much less be able to show how to use it or correct faults or faulty usage.

As a result, instructiors teaching use of gps is a little useless, since the systems are all so different. Or, to be of use, they would have to choose one, and show exactly how to use that (and how not).

As far as i am aware, teaching is still primarily manual navigating, with an "oh yes there's also gps" leson to update things. This is a bit like showing people orienteering with a compass when they plan to use a car. Though of course, not instructors fault, merely the circumstances.

But my beef is that there no proper instruction of using gps as a primary, which many boaters do already. Yet an instructor would not require that the helm knew anything of the gps on their boat, whereas we all all required to be able to use the instruments in our car, and would fail tests if the radio was blaring we didn't know how to turn it off.

Transferring to paper, chosing waypoints, noting compass bearings for backup, and so on. But necessarily impossible with varying systems.

 

[bedouin]

Relde worlde RYA courses

I disagree - I for one would like to see a much more up-to-date approach by RYA to GPS - and other electronic navaids.

The fact is that 90% of yachtsmen seem to use GPS as a primary aid to navigation these days - and RYA's approach doesn't really do it justice.

I would like to see:

(a) An explanation of the use of GPS for things other than giving present position. (I use my GPS mostly for speeds, bearings and distances, not LAT/LONG positions).

(b) More emphasis placed on the risks associated with relying on GPS

 

[Cornishman]

Re:really?

I don't know to which Yachtmaster book you refer, but this year's course notebook has eight pages devoted to gps and other elecronic systems. beginning with the "birdcage" theory and including sensible use of waypoints, routing using gps, other points including XTE, VMG, HDoP etc etc.
Electronic charts are covered, too, but perhaps a little sparsely for some.
See RYA Yachtmaster course book YSN/02.

 

[Cornishman]

Relde worlde RYA courses

See this year's shore based theory course notebook Yachtmaster YSN/02 and your questions are answered.

 

[bedouin]

Relde worlde RYA courses

Clearly I'm out of date. I'll have a browse next time I'm in a bookshop.

I wonder if any of the "standard" YM texts have been updated to reflect the change in emphasis (again the versions I've seen are all from a couple of years ago)

 

[BrendanS]

Relde worlde RYA courses

Doing YM theory at present, and have been told that next year there will be far more emphasis on worked examples of more modern techniques due to pressure from training schools

 

[LadyInBed]

Re:Teaching

It's not any particular make of kit that needs to be taught, it's the principle.
Anyone with a bit of 2K2 savy that can find his way round a Video / DVD / CD etc can soon master a bit of marine electronics (It may take a bit longer if you have the book as well)!

 

[tcm]

Re:Teaching, agreed sort-of

Hum yes. But take our stuff: You turn it on, and alarms go off. You need to know that the alarm goes ape if there is no heading data. And how to enter waypoints, cos not the same as garmin....before showing wisdom of these waypoints as opposed to some others, what a sensible xte is under different circumstances, when to allow/not allow for tides, how to be circumspect about some (man made buoyage) data but not others, and so o, partly theory, a fair bit practical. 75% of the world's superyachts are power not sail, and the skippers can bne 1000% qualified with being just ace at pencil, paper, rulers and sextants on a boat that does 30 knots with 3 plasma scren in front of them and (as you say) the manual, sometimes in their own language, sometimes not.

 

[steffen]

Jeremy,
I could not have put it better. I got my boat with the plotter and its the best bit in it.
Not only does one have the plot capability and the paper chart but that paper chart also has the latest, accurate position on should the electronics fail.

Happy sailing, Steffen

 

[ToMo]

Re: Chartplotter - Chicken or Egg?

Ah! so that was the problem, everyone else brings it to the surface!!
- yea I know - but I've been on my boat too long!

TôMö

 

[Cornishman]

Submerged? nm

nm

 

[jonjo]

I think you have made the most cost effective improvement possible to your yacht's nav station. As you say the combination of paper chart and yeoman will out perform a tiny lcd screen in many respects and will continue to do so until a telepathic interface is invented. Electronics cannot compete with the scrolling rate of an eyeball scanning over a paper chart.

A chart plotter would be a distinct advantage during fast evolving inshore pilotage but personally I would keep my £1000 in the bank for another 2-3 years because these products are currently evolving at such a high rate.

 

[tcm]

Re: disagree

The future is now, jonjo, and jeremyF. Mesltd.co.uk will sell a garmin 175 chartplotter for £199, with a very unhostile interface. Certainly, eyeballs can rove and assimilate big charts faster than electronics can scroll, but does comparison of "tiny screen" with a paper chart mean that you have not really tried these (or been out with others who have) to recognise the difference in what they do? Perhaps? Maybe, years ago, ancient mariners would have none of these new-fangled paper charts, beliveing that they could smell their way to the New World.

 

[colin_jones]

Re: That was me...

Vyv.. My CP also reads into pontoon level ( in most marinas where the chart datum has been correctly devised in the first place.)

I would, however, advise you to scrub the chart plot track history every day.

Reason? I was showing somebody the 10" colour screen and he asked what was the line which went close to a pontoon and then looped away through 360 degrees. I then remembered that I was busy talking and had missed the pontoon in Brixham. The recovery manouvre was recorded as a pecked line on the screen and remained to bring back my embarrassment.

You have been warned!!