Charter/School boat value

[tmh900]

How does this compare with a similar boat that has always been privately owned? Take two scenarios (in both cases the same boat, same factory options):

Scenario 1

Boat A – charter/school boat from new. 10 years old. Most ‘perishables' recently replaced (sails, rig etc.)

Boat B – privately owned from new. 10 years old. Cruised and lightly used. Similar condition to Boat A.

How does the value of the boats differ to a private purchaser?

Scenario 2

Boat A – charter/school boat from new for first 5 years. Been in private ownership for last 5 years.

Boat B – privately owned from new. Cruised and lightly used. Similar condition to Boat A.

How does the value of the boats differ to a private purchaser?

Please not this is not related to a personal purchase decision – always found this interesting when seeing charter/sailing school boats for sale.

 

[lw395]

A coded boat is worth more to someone who intends to charter it, its quicker and cheaper than coding one from scratch.

A boat that has been heavily used will wear in subtle ways, like berth cushion foam going, more wear on interior varnish, more things having been changed/bodged/replaced with different screwholes, some of these things don't come to light immediately. OTOH the maintenance may get done professionally and more thoroughly or in a more 'money no object' way.

A boat that has been chartered and still looks good, probably is good.

 

[jhr]

It's partly about perception - an ex charter boat is regarded (often with some justice) as having led a hard life. Replacing "perishable" gear will help undo some of this, but the boat's probably been dinged against every pontoon within 50 miles of home, and the engine's likely to have a lot of hours on it, and maybe not to have been very well looked after. I don't know how meticulous charter companies are about doing the right maintenance at the right time, but I bet cost has a bearing on it, whereas a privately owned boat will almost certainly have emptied her owner's pockets at regular intervals.

Finally, charter fleets extort big discounts from the volume builders and I'd expect a share of that, were I buying on from them.

None of this may be all that logical, but I think they're the kind of factors that determine the second-hand buyer's perception of an ex fleet boat's value.

Just MHO

 

[ChrisE]

It's partly about perception - an ex charter boat is regarded (often with some justice) as having led a hard life. Replacing "perishable" gear will help undo some of this, but the boat's probably been dinged against every pontoon within 50 miles of home, and the engine's likely to have a lot of hours on it, and maybe not to have been very well looked after. I don't know how meticulous charter companies are about doing the right maintenance at the right time, but I bet cost has a bearing on it, whereas a privately owned boat will almost certainly have emptied her owner's pockets at regular intervals.

Finally, charter fleets extort big discounts from the volume builders and I'd expect a share of that, were I buying on from them.

None of this may be all that logical, but I think they're the kind of factors that determine the second-hand buyer's perception of an ex fleet boat's value.

Just MHO

Certainly there is suspicion about a charter boat and rightly so in some cases and read on...

Rival Spirit is an ex-charter that led a very hard life and we have spent the equivalent of a small nation's GDP to bring her up to where she is now and expect to spend more. The great advantage is that the boat is *ours*, in that all of the upgrades were to our specification. Arguably, better than a factory built version.

 

[tmh900]

Saw an article in a mag in the last year or two. Guy bought an ex-Sunsail Oceanis (393 I think) - 5 yr old boat or less. Spent quite a few £,000 on it (can't recall why) but the thrust of the article was even after spending the extra it was still a good deal compared to a similar boat that had not been chartered.

It appeared the suggestion was it could be sold on at a profit. But the first question buyer asks is who was previous owner? Sunsail, OK, so would expect a discount to similar private boat (well I would).

....but I would guess when the same boat is 20 years old, it does not matter so much it was chartered 15 years ago.

 

[Tranona]

As an owner of an ex charter boat (which I have actually owned since new) I don't think that ownership per se is the issue, but condition. I think my boat (in Corfu) is in much better condition than boats of the same age I have looked at in the UK, irrespective of ownership. Well managed charter boats are normally kept in good nick because of the cost of failure. However when they have done 6 or 7 seasons with 3-4000 hours on the engine, lots of bits are getting to the end of their useful life, even though the basic structure will be fine. On the other hand they will be generally better equipped than most private boats.

I think the "worst" boats are older ones worked hard as sailing school boats, out in all weathers with maximum size crews and the "best" like mine - lots of time out in benign conditions serving mainly as a platform for drifting from anchorage to anchorage. Regular engine running, little stress on sails and deck gear, no climbing down below in wet clothes and clanging safety harnesses to bash up the furniture and so on. The only thing that really needed replacing on ours after 7 seasons chartering was the saloon upholstery. And it does have a couple of dings on the toe rail and some small scrapes, but otherwise feels just like it did when we first took delivery in 2001.

So I think (hope?) when I come to sell it that condition will determine its value.

 

[jhr]

Saw an article in a mag in the last year or two. Guy bought an ex-Sunsail Oceanis (393 I think) - 5 yr old boat or less. Spent quite a few £,000 on it (can't recall why) but the thrust of the article was even after spending the extra it was still a good deal compared to a smilar boat that had not been chartered.

It appeared the suggestion was it could be sold on at a profit. But the first question buyer asks is who was previous owner? Sunsail, OK, so would expect a discount to similar private boat (well I would).

....but I would guess when the same boat is 20 years old, it does not matter so much it was chartered 15 years ago.

I read that article as well. The main reason she needed money spending, iirc, was because it became apparent that the topsides had received a massive wallop on one side, at some point, and had deformed. The guy bargained on price, (and made it plain, incidentally, that Sunsail acted like gentlemen throughout) and ended up with a bargain buy, properly repaired and in good nick. Fine for him, but I'd be uneasy if I were a subsequent purchaser and uncovered the boat's history.

 

[tmh900]

I read that article as well. The main reason she needed money spending, iirc, was because it became apparent that the topsides had received a massive wallop on one side, at some point, and had deformed. The guy bargained on price, (and made it plain, incidentally, that Sunsail acted like gentlemen throughout) and ended up with a bargain buy, properly repaired and in good nick. Fine for him, but I'd be uneasy if I were a subsequent purchaser and uncovered the boat's history.

Just found the article. 3 yr old boat from the med. £15K for sandblast & polish the hull, re-shimmed the ruder, replaced the toe rails, new genoa (smaller for UK), stackpack, lazy jacks, spray hood. Didn't say what the owner paid - just 10% less than sunsail asking price).

 

[puddock]

My boat (Westerly Storm) was a charter boat for quite a few years, on the W. coast of Scotland. I found that although it had been well used, it was very well maintained and also out of the water every year during the off-season. Luckily the sails were recent, also.
Remeber all the extras that will probably come with the charter boat too.........

 

[hawkesbaynz]

I have enjoyed two courses with Sunsail and, whilst I thoroughly enjoyed the tuition and experience of the Sunfast 37, would be circumspect about buying a yacht from them. Memories of several yachts practising mooring in East Cowes on an otherwise quiet March morning was comparable with a demolition derby. The instructor said they also got dinged on charter, particularly when racing with the Sunsail skippers aboard. Imagine this is similar to other schools. Both yachts were leaky and damp.

That is what school yachts are for - dinging and knocking them before you do the same to your own and friends.

Comparison with the yacht I crew on which has never struck a mooring in three years of use. My mate complains about the fenders rubbing against the gel coat in his marina.

I think I would demand at least 20% off - 10% for thediscount they got and 10% for the history. Bear in mind your resale..

 

[mikehibb]

Well we have an Ex Sunsail boat.
It is ex Med boat not Ex UK boat so I guess that the med boats have a slightly easier life.
We are much the same as Tranona said earlier, saloon upholstery needs to be replaced/recovered but we did budget for that in the first place.
We fitted new Jabsco loo, first thing we did, mainly through choice.
As mentioned earlier charter boats need to work, otherwise it costs the company money in call outs and rebates to customers.
Little repairs that private owners would do "next trip" or in the winter, need to be done straight away so the next customers do not complain.
To be honest we coud not have afforded a 6 year old boat of the size that we wanted if we had not gone for ex charter.

With regard to varnish and woodwork etc, the saloon is virtually immaculate.
Boat came complete with Life raft, chart plotter ( we just had to buy a new C-map card, can not complain at that) autohelm, tacktik windy thing etc.
It has a couple of slight scrathces, not bad for 6 years old, nothing that will not polish out.
The only thing it does need is a good proffessional clean and polish to bring the shine back. I have seen one of its "sister boats" that had the full spit and polish last winter, looks like a brand spanking new boat.

Sunsail ( in the med) only keep the boats for 6 seasons, and luckily they also they fit new sails in during season 5, so got a newish set of sails too.

Charter companies do get good discounts for bulk purchases, however they often do not own the boats themselves, Sunsail and others have boat ownership schemes where you buy the boat and have so many weeks use, take a return from the scheme etc ( lots of different versions of this) Like Tranona had. This helps keep their overheads down, the owner then can keep the boat or sell it, but as many of the boats are privatey owned under the schemes, then they need to make sure that the boats are in good condition to hand over to the owner should they want to take possession at the end of the scheme.

We were lucky in that when we bought the boat it was priced in Euros, we paid deposit (subject to survey) and fixed the price in GBP ( we got it at 1:1.43) Also the Euro asking price for an ex charter boat at the time was just under 2/3rds of the private sale price for identical boats. We also negotiated a few more % off the price for quick cash completion. They are not daft either, it is better for them to sell quickly at end of season and give discount, rather than for them to have to pay yard fees ( all sunsail med boats come out of the water for the winter, well the ones where we bought do) and then hold out until next season and try and get a better price.

So at the end of the day and with the recent GBP:Euro exchange rate our boat cost just over half what it would have been if we bought privately. That enables us to have a boat that we would not otherwise have been able to afford, it also allows (it was budgeted for anyway) money to be spent on re-upholstery and a good spit and polish, and I could still turn a few quid if I wanted to sell it with no rush or break evens if I needed to sell it quickly.

There is only one problem, SWMBO although happy with our 33 fter, has mentioned that in a couple of years she thinks that we could move up to 43 ft. I am always worried when a woman approves spending money on a bigger boat.
However, we would not hesitate to buy and ex charter boat again.

 

[tmh900]

Well we have an Ex Sunsail boat.
.....
I could still turn a few quid if I wanted to sell it with no rush or break evens if I needed to sell it quickly.

Sounds like your boat had fared better than the 3 year old boat in the magazine article.

Once you have it in tip-top condition, how much of a discount would you need to accept relative to an equivalent privatley owned boat?

And if you kept the boat over quite a few years would your boats value become similar to the ones that have always been in private ownership?

 

[Tranona]

And if you kept the boat over quite a few years would your boats value become similar to the ones that have always been in private ownership?

Don't think there is an answer to that one. We also got our boat at a fraction of the cost overall of a similar boat in the UK, and have had excellent value from the times we have used it.

I don't think the term "discount" comes into it. The price is the price irrespective of what other people might be asking. If you have a choice of two similar boats you weigh them up and make your decision on which is right for you based on what you have to pay to get it. It is completely irrelevant what the current or previous owners paid for the boat.

I think our experience is more typical than the worn out boats you "hear" about for the reasons that have been given.

I think buyers are much more interested in what they see than the history. I have seen some pretty gruesome one owner boats that need 30 or 40% of their asking price spent on them to undo all the horrible things that owners have done and bring them up to my standards. Thats partly why I stick with what I have. You would have to be really picky to spend more than a couple of thousand on my boat (rough value £50k) unless you were wanting to change some of the kit that I have. Indeed my budget for this winter to get her ready for coming back through the canals is about £2k and half of that is on a better sprayhood to replace the original. Not bad on a 9 year old boat.

If you are looking for popular boats such as Bennys and Bavs, particularly in the Med, a substantial number on the market will be ex charter and are likely to be good value. In the UK from what I have seen there is a bigger difference between private and charter boats because the latter are worked so much harder in poor conditions to earn their keep, so you have to be more careful about what you are buying.