Charter problems

P

philwebb

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 May 2002
Messages
696
Location
london
Visit site
I have just done a charter in North Wales with some mates. We found quite a few things wrong with the boat, some safety related, for example the life jackets were in bad condition with corroded cylinders and one of the automatic ones had part of the mechanism missing.
One of the toilet seacocks was seized and of course this was the toilet that leaked. The skipper has taken this up with the charter company and sent them a list of the faults, most of which were due to neglect and lack of maintenance.
Who is responsible for checking standards on charter boats? Is it DoT who do "coding" or does the RYA have some input?
In the holding reply that the skipper got back from the charter company they suggested that we should have been charged £6 extra each per life jacket. This seems to be a load of bo**ocks as on all the charters I have been on lifejackets have been supplied. I thought that they were automatically part of the inventory. What is the minimum inventory??
 
Blue Book

Levels of equipment are governed by the MCA CODE OF PRACTICE, which lists in detail the minimum inventory for all items of safety equipment. This is not negotiable.

It is a minimum requirement that the same number of lifejackets is carried as the boat is coded for - i..e. if the vessel is approved as a six berth vessel then six ljs must be on board. I have never heard of a charter company charging extra for lifejackets and am sure this is illegal. Are you sure you heard that bit right?

Lifejackets are tested when the boat is examined, but there is also an obligation for them to be inspected annually. CO2 cylinders used to be checked by weighing them to make sure they were still full, but this procedure may have changed.

From my own experience of doing charter handovers in the past charterers are not always able to tell the difference betweeen what is what is unsafe, what is in breach of the Code and what is merely slightly scruffy but perfectly servicable. If you or the skipper refers to the Code you should be able to spot any genuine discrepancies immediately.

- W
 
After the initial inspection by a codeing surveyor the owner then self certificates for a few years, can't remember how many now but I only had a charter boat for a couple of years.
 
If you have exhausted the back and forth with the charter co and they have not (in your opinion) given satisfactory explanations then you should name and shame here.

Mjcp
 
philwebb said:
... the skipper got back from the charter company they suggested that we should have been charged £6 extra each per life jacket. This seems to be a load of bo**ocks as on all the charters I have been on lifejackets have been supplied. I thought that they were automatically part of the inventory. What is the minimum inventory??
Click to expand...

Tigger is chartered out. I can confirm that lifejackets are certainly a requirement and they must be serviced and checked annualy. They must also be in full working order at thetime of handover and this is responsibility of charter. However, they should also be checked by the skipper and crew before setting off (this is good practice). After that it is the skipper's/hirer's responsibility to keep things in order (ie. if they accidentally set off the inflation devices, they must make sure they replace them or don the foam-filled life jackets).

What the company charges you is up to them/you. the MCA does not get involved. It is up to them to have good financial plan and decide how to breakdown the costs - a la Ryanair: perhaps I should consider advertising Tigger for £0.01 per week/high season, and then add a few extras (not optional) such as hire of the keel (say £299), a bit of aluminium to hold the rags up (£399), bits of white dacron cloth is a vague triangular shape (£199), a lump of green painted steel under the companionway for just £99 etc... The otional working toilet will be £49 per day, but the black bucket is free!!!!

What do you think?
 
If you do not get satisfaction - and your case will be helped by understanding coding requirements - then Trading Standards is the next step. Threat of this should exercise their minds somewhat!
 
webcraft said:
It is a minimum requirement that the same number of lifejackets is carried as the boat is coded for - i..e. if the vessel is approved as a six berth vessel then six ljs must be on board.
Click to expand...
If they are inflatable, there must be two more lifejackets on board than the number of people it is coded for. I.e. if coded for 6 people, there have to be 8 lifejackets.
 
We charter out and I would be horrified if any of the faults you mentioned were foud on my boat.

The faults as you have described them implies non compliance with the statuary code for this vessel type, ie MCA code of practise MGN280(N). Vessels need to be surveyed every three years and can be self certified in the interveening years. (There are some particulars with the phrase/wording of these that I can never remember).

The MCA have a list of "Certifying Authorities" for charter vessels, one of which is the RYA. They will issue a cetificate based on a survey by an approved surveyor (again there are lists of approved surveyors).

Should you get no satisfaction from the charter company I would contact the MCA direct. I would suspect they will take this sort of thing very seriously.

Wrt to lifejackets, they must be serviced within "...one month either side of the Compliance, Renewal and Intermediate examination. In the intervening years they are to e examined annually to the manufacturer's recommendation." "As far as reasonable and practicable, visual examinations should be carried out weekly by the owner/management to determine whether they are safe to use." (The above is from the MGN280 (M), section 13.4.6

Seems there is clear eveidence that they have not undertaken the later part and if you as a charterer can spot these defects then it is certainly reasonable and practicable that the owner should have!

Our lifejackets go back to the manufacturer every year and are serviced by them and a certificate for every lifejacket note this is carried on the boat. (£10 per lifejacket, but when you need it to work there should be no doubt that it will!)

Good luck and let us know what happens.
 
Skippers duty

philwebb said:
I have just done a charter in North Wales with some mates. We found quite a few things wrong with the boat, some safety related, for example the life jackets were in bad condition with corroded cylinders and one of the automatic ones had part of the mechanism missing.
One of the toilet seacocks was seized and of course this was the toilet that leaked. The skipper has taken this up with the charter company and sent them a list of the faults, most of which were due to neglect and lack of maintenance.
Who is responsible for checking standards on charter boats? Is it DoT who do "coding" or does the RYA have some input?
In the holding reply that the skipper got back from the charter company they suggested that we should have been charged £6 extra each per life jacket. This seems to be a load of bo**ocks as on all the charters I have been on lifejackets have been supplied. I thought that they were automatically part of the inventory. What is the minimum inventory??
Click to expand...

Surely it is the Skippers duty to give a full safety brief on joining ship, a substantial part of which would have been allocation of lifejackets, inspection,how to fit and how to deploy, any defects would have been noticed and reported whilst in the Marina.
As for seized seacocks only a fool would go to sea without knowing where and the condition of these items.
No point coming back whinging when you should have all taken basic precautions before leaving Port.
MCA coding for charter is out of the water survey every 5 years an interim afloat inspection on the 3rd year and a recorded self cert every year and the list is enormous. For your charter boat to have been allowed to go to sea she would have had to pass very strict regulations, although I agree a seized seacock would mean a fail but then perhaps boiling water or WD 40 might have solved the prob.
 
From a charter boat owners perspective

You should complain to the charter company, and if they don't respond to the MCA.

Charter boats MUST carry one lifejacket for each crew plus two spares, and they must be inspected on a 3/5 year cycle by a coding surveyor. The owner self-certifies that they are OK every year. Even if one jacket has a problem you should have the spare ones.

I charter my boat, and the problem is that you simply cannot do a full check of absolutely everything in the handover period between one charter party leaving and another taking over.

If outgoing charterers are honest and report damaged items, or things they have lost you can fix or replace them, but many regrettably don't. This year alone four large fenders, a strop with chain hook, a shorepower cable, a handbearing compass and three mooring warps have gone missing, and several more warps and the one of the genoa sheets have been badly chewed either by an extremely large and hungry rat, or (more likely) the prop.

Funnily enough I don't grumble that much about the missing/damaged stuff, as the charter fees do mean that I can afford to run a bigger and newer boat than I might otherwise. I do get irritated though by the fact that every time I set sail myself I find the leech lines on main and genoa are grossly overtight! Also that despite a careful and logical stowage plan nothing is ever put back where it came from!
 
Check If They Are A Member of An Association

The Company might be a member of the Yacht Charter Association (YCA) or SYCA in Scotland. They have a set of standards that members adhere to. Of course this is a voluntary association and then MCA coding is the standard required for commercial chartering.

The (S)YCA can be found on the web. Google it.

Please name and shame them. If more of us did this then commercial enterprises may be less inclined to let standards slip. There is no excuse for chartering a vessel with defunct safety equipment. While a skipper has responsibilities, the leisure skipper who charters may not be aware of what he or she is obliged to do. The passage planning ruling is an example.

The charter company is obliged to make the skipper aware through the Safety / Operationa Manual and hand over check of the requirements.
 
Trade Association for Charters in Scotland

Correction to earlier thread- For "SYCA" read ASYC-Association of Scottish Yacht Charterers. www.asyc.co.uk

BlowingOldBoots said:
The Company might be a member of the Yacht Charter Association (YCA) or SYCA in Scotland. They have a set of standards that members adhere to. Of course this is a voluntary association and then MCA coding is the standard required for commercial chartering.

The (S)YCA can be found on the web. Google it.

Please name and shame them. If more of us did this then commercial enterprises may be less inclined to let standards slip. There is no excuse for chartering a vessel with defunct safety equipment. While a skipper has responsibilities, the leisure skipper who charters may not be aware of what he or she is obliged to do. The passage planning ruling is an example.

The charter company is obliged to make the skipper aware through the Safety / Operationa Manual and hand over check of the requirements.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top