Charter preference, MAB or AWB?

CFarr said:
Been away boat hunting so just catching up with this.
What about something like a Halberg Rassy 352? Only (!) about £80k to buy now so similar in cost to a 2000 and something AWB.
Surely there must be folk wanting the chance to sail something of that pedigree rather than the modern AWB's? I know which one I'd choose in a heartbeat.
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You might but I am not sure you have a grasp on the charter market. The bulk of the demand is from people wanting a holiday on a boat. For many the performance of the boat is less important than its comfort and the number of people it can take to share the cost.
They also tend to want the sort of boat they cannot afford to own. Despite your preferences AWBs are in general very capable boats and provide what people want as well as giving operators a chance of making a profit.

Like some others that have responded to this thread I have been involved in the charter business, owning a charter boat. My experience is that most potential customers have little interest in the make or model of the boat. They are much more interested in price, service, reliability and location.

There are of course many who want something different from this model and as I have shown in response to dancranes posts there is a wide range of charter opportunities for niche markets. There are a few people who try to offer the kind of boats you like but find there is very limited demand and the costs of offering a good service outweigh any income the small level demand provides.
 
OK, as a newbie poster, I would like a definition of MAB and AWB. It is OK for all the old posters, and I can deduce the meaning, and I know my preference, but what do the letters actually stand for?
 
Yara said:
OK, as a newbie poster, I would like a definition of MAB and AWB. It is OK for all the old posters, and I can deduce the meaning, and I know my preference, but what do the letters actually stand for?
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Mouldy Auld Boat and Average White Boat. But, nice if we can stop using the abbreviations, and specify the exact design being praised/shat upon, each time. Otherwise even a justifiable criticism paints a lot of possibly viceless yachts with the same dirty brush. Welcome to the forum, by the way! :D
 
Might I suggest alternative acronyms: CBB -Classic Blue-water Boat and MCB- Modern Caravan Boat. The former implying a boat which is buiilt to take some punishment and survive storms in some comfort, the latter a modern production boat built with comfort and space in port, or in protected waterways, as the primary objective.
 
Yara said:
...The former implying a boat which is buiilt to take some punishment and survive storms in some comfort, the latter a modern production boat built with comfort and space in port, or in protected waterways, as the primary objective.
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You'll fit in well here, mate! Prepare yourself for torrential abuse, for suggesting that lighter boats don't mainly belong offshore. Don't take it personally; unfair criticism abounds, aimed at practical modern cruisers...I don't like 'em much, but I'm in a minority...while owners of such boats return fire energetically. It dominates proceedings here. The jury's out, and likely to stay out far into the future, regarding who's right. :)
 
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dancrane said:
You'll fit in well here, mate! Prepare yourself for torrential abuse, for suggesting that lighter boats don't mainly belong offshore. Don't take it personally; unfair criticism abounds, aimed at practical modern cruisers...I don't like 'em much, but I'm in a minority...while owners of such boats return fire energetically. It dominates proceedings here. The jury's out, and likely to stay out far into the future, regarding who's right. :)
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No worries- a robust discussion is healthy. However, note that I use the concept "Primarily Objective". Design is always a compromise, so most designs can do a bit of everything, it is just a case of degree of comfort when doing it, and the intended primary role. Have found on other forums that owners tend to defend whatever design they own, and that is perfectly logical, given that they have already made the choice.

As an example of design intent- take a look at the companionway steps, or master cabin on most modern production boats, and imagine how you would move around safely, with good hand-holds, in a big sea, bashing to windward.
 
Yara said:
As an example of design intent- take a look at the companionway steps, or master cabin on most modern production boats, and imagine how you would move around safely, with good hand-holds, in a big sea, bashing to windward.
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Here we go ..... welcome to the forum. This has been done to death so many times so I will only say one thing .... when Hallberg Rassy decide to produce the ultimate AWB, which shares layout and underwater profile with so many other AWBs then all the modern yacht builders must be doing something right ... and if all that's missing are a couple of hand holds to make people feel better, then fit them and get on with life.

The future ....

_HR412sailing3MKreplin.jpg
 
Great picture. How d'you make it open so large? Was it from your computer files or a URL? I haven't been able to make the forum show photos using URLs since the format change. :(
 
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dancrane said:
Mouldy Auld Boat and Average White Boat. But, nice if we can stop using the abbreviations, and specify the exact design being praised/shat upon, each time. Otherwise even a justifiable criticism paints a lot of possibly viceless yachts with the same dirty brush. Welcome to the forum, by the way! :D
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As the OP, I agree the terms are too wide but was just using them 'cause everyone else seems to.
As for my type preference, I've given up on the eternal compromise and decided that I need at least two yachts.
:)
 
dancrane said:
Great picture. How d'you make it open so large? Was it from your computer files or a URL? I haven't been able to make the forum show photos using URLs since the frormat change. :(
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In Windoze: Right click on any picture you want to post and select 'properties' (right at the bottom.) This will generate a pop-up showing the image properties. If the URL is an image file, then copy the URL from the address field.

Then go back to the forums, click the little 'insert image' icon on your post, which will bring up the image dialog box. Click the tab 'from URL' and paste the address copied from the HR web site into the box. Then clear the little tick box "Retrieve remote file and reference locally" ... bingo.... it looks like this ....

_HR412sailing6300MKreplin.jpg
 
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dancrane said:
Cheers, I might easily have gone eighteen months without working that out! Busy now, but I'll have a go later. Thanks again. :D
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And this wonderful new forum software incarnation seems to have implemented a browser/screen scaling that stops the off-screen scrolling that used to drive me crazy on my on-board netbook when so many would inconsiderately post those big, big pictures. I would have to avoid any thread where that had occurred. Now they fit whatever the display size.

Magic, well done the tech. support team.
 
Wit due respect to all HR owners but I wonder where posters have got the idea that a HR is a MAB? A HR is an AWB at the higher end of the quality finish spectrum.
 
jimi said:
Wit due respect to all HR owners but I wonder where posters have got the idea that a HR is a MAB? A HR is an AWB at the higher end of the quality finish spectrum.
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Sorry, my perception of the accepted MAB/AWB myth was

MAB = Seaworthy blue-water yacht.

AWB = Unsafe weekender only fit for marinas, inland lakes and charter holidays.

By this logic, a HR must be a MAB. - but it now sports all the design details of every other AWB and HR certainly know a thing or two about building quality blue water yachts. So in my simple world, a HR is a bloody expensive (and very desirable) AWB.

I'm confused ....
 
The origin of MAB was a reference to Parahandy's TW35 as a manky auld boat in contrast to my , at the time, grey hound of the ocean Beneteau 331, the epitome of the AWB (all white boat) ;-)


Blue water cruiser could be either an AWB or an MAB and argument will range until time eternal as to which is best fit for purpose!
 
jimi said:
The origin of MAB was a reference to Parahandy's TW35 as a manky auld boat in contrast to my , at the time, grey hound of the ocean Beneteau 331, the epitome of the AWB (all white boat) ;-)


Blue water cruiser could be either an AWB or an MAB and argument will range until time eternal as to which is best fit for purpose!
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Aha! Now we know who is to blame for all this......
 
Baggywrinkle said:
Sorry, my perception of the accepted MAB/AWB myth was

MAB = Seaworthy blue-water yacht.

AWB = Unsafe weekender only fit for marinas, inland lakes and charter holidays.

By this logic, a HR must be a MAB. - but it now sports all the design details of every other AWB and HR certainly know a thing or two about building quality blue water yachts. So in my simple world, a HR is a bloody expensive (and very desirable) AWB.

I'm confused ....
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No wonder this topic has been done to death! Everyone is arguing at cross purposes. I now suggest we change the acronyms similar to the above for clarity:
MAB now becomes seaworthy Blue Water Boat= BWB
AWB- Sheltered Waters Boat, spacious, weekender optimised for marinas, inland lakes and charter holidays, = SWB.

In the unlikely event of agreement, :), someone could even post a sticky post with the definitions, so that the rest of us could know what on earth we are talking about.

Then modern or old, a particular boat could predominantly fit into either category. Of course, this would then be subject to heated discussion. Maybe a scale is required, where 1 is a SWB and 10 is a BWB.

The answer to the original post would then be that if you are chartering, you are unlikely to be doing much blue water sailing, so the logical choice would be a SWB 3 or thereabouts, depending on the location and intent of the charter.
 
Yara said:
No wonder this topic has been done to death! Everyone is arguing at cross purposes. I now suggest we change the acronyms similar to the above for clarity:
MAB now becomes seaworthy Blue Water Boat= BWB
AWB- Sheltered Waters Boat, spacious, weekender optimised for marinas, inland lakes and charter holidays, = SWB.

In the unlikely event of agreement, :), someone could even post a sticky post with the definitions, so that the rest of us could know what on earth we are talking about.

Then modern or old, a particular boat could predominantly fit into either category. Of course, this would then be subject to heated discussion. Maybe a scale is required, where 1 is a SWB and 10 is a BWB.

The answer to the original post would then be that if you are chartering, you are unlikely to be doing much blue water sailing, so the logical choice would be a SWB 3 or thereabouts, depending on the location and intent of the charter.
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Would only create more arguments such as "My boat should be an SWB5 - not a 3" The two categories are there to polarise debate, not clarify things. Just lucky the thread did not start on why there is only one category in the RCD covering such a wide range of boats. Then we could have new arguments about ballast ratios, GZ curves, AVS, STIX numbers, the inadequacies of the ISO standard (damn! forgot the number) and which boat is best for going round Cape Horn in the middle of winter.
 
jimi said:
Depends where I'm sailing, who I'm sailing with and what the objectives of the trip are.

If I were heading out to St Kilda , for example, I'd want a big boat. MAB or AWB immaterial.

So really I think its a bit of a non question as it basically would come down to cost and accomodation. For a serious trip, I'd use my own boat. Which is an AWB , I suppose.
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It is by definition an AWB and was there at the moment the term MAB was coined... and then beat the MAB on a wild run u p the solent ... wacky trip...
 
tcm said:
It is by definition an AWB and was there at the moment the term MAB was coined... and then beat the MAB on a wild run u p the solent ... wacky trip...
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Aha .. that was my previous boat, you need to keep up, where have you been .. otherside of the world or sumfink?
 
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