Chart Plotters

[Croucher]

Hi all.
Presently have fixed GPS and Decca before that. Done the shorebased courses and am ok with old fashioned plotting but am intrigued by plotters which show present position on electronic charts. Im lazy at heart, I suppose.
Most sailing is southern North Sea/coasting in a Centaur.
Are these little more than expensive extra toys and lacking in real tangible benefits?
Has anyone a preference? Im happy with current Garmin GPS so far but there seems to be plenty of differing makes/types. I'd appreciate opinions from you practical people rather than magazine reviews.
Other option would be laptop pc with appropriate hard/software to fulfill plotter job, if this is possible.
What do you think?
Thanks

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[tcm]

I am a huge fan of portable chart plotters. These can be taken on deck or below, on charter boats and friends boats, need zero fitting/hacking, don't get sold/old with the boat, and can be played with at home for preparing and dreaming. They are not toys - positions can be checked on input because the waypoint is shown as a spot on the rolling map. You buy little "chips" for the relavnt region to give fine detail, sometimes down to pontton level. Good backup service is from Garmin, and their kit is excellent. The colour plotter erm 7 summink is the one to get. 700 quid ish, probly cheaer at the show. You need a 12v ciggie adapter - they eat little batteries at 1 every 30 mins so the thing is flat after a fourish hours with 12 adapter. The little garmin is still v useful - as it can run on batteries for yonks and yonks

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[charles_reed]

I got my chartplotter by accident 10 years ago when I was looking for a chart-table repeater for the instruments.
I have subsequently found it an ideal tool, tho' my cruising radius is greater than most.

The chartplotter is the non-critical item - before you consider getting one, choose your chart format, then start looking at the plotters.

There are 2 basic types, vector (effectively a database) and raster (like a bitmap).

The vector type need far less in the way of resources to both store and manipulate them - typical of these are the Navionics/Garmin ones. These are the ones used in car plotting systems and many yacht plotters.
The benefit is that you need an inexpensive CPU and little in the way of memory to have large scale charts which can be quickly re-drawn to large scale port plans from the same basic data. This means fairly low cost for the plotter, a small power requirement (5-8watts) and the same area contained on a flash memory card where you'd need about 6 CD-RoMs. The disdvantage is that the process of digitising can be error-prone, updates are relatively difficult and the LCD screens are small.

The raster type, more popular for serious commercial use, require far more resource and there are a number of PC programmes which utilise raster technology (by far the cheapest way of enjoying the benefits). Typical of these are the ARCs.
The NMEA input data is via an RS232 port, though USB will soon replace this.
With very little programming it is possible to download all the navigation data onto a log on a computer.

Personally, havibg been involved with PCs for a lot of my working life, I wouldn't consider them more than a plaything in the marine environment.

In any case I use paper charts for routeing and for track fixes when passage-making, typically these are about 300K - 500K to 1 scale and Pilot books for the actual approaches to ports.

Finally there are the ENV charts, a cross between vector and raster, though I don't think they're available for anything but commercial chartplotters - they are a new dimension in navigational charting.

Chartplotters are a major benefit for serious long-distance sailing, especially when short- or single-handed.
For coastal/local work (which covers most leisure sailing) they are a fascinating toy. If you're sailing within a 100NM radius paper charts are best.
If you're looking at 3/4K then electronic charts are a must on anything but a large boat.


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[vyv_cox]

Totally agree with the others. I wouldn't be without one. You will doubtless be advised that a Yeoman is a better choice. Not true IMHO, there's no comparison, but make up your own mind by trying them.

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[billmacfarlane]

When I bought my last boat I ordered a radar but my wife said since we were spending that much why not get a chart plotter AND a radar. She was dead right. I've used the chart ploter a lot and love it. It's not a replacement for paper charts but I've found that though I've got a paper chart open on the table I use the electronic one much more. If I'm doing a Channel crossing I'll use a paper one and keep the plotter off to save power but I'll switch it on again when I close the coast. With Southampton BS coming up you've got a real opportunity to get demos of all the different types and make your own mind up. Bet you like them.

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[Birdseye]

very much an issue of personal taste. mags will tell you the tech details so the points below are what has decided me personally that i dont want one:
1/ wouldnt consider a pc in a damp marine environment unless it had back up and belonged to my employer
2/ in practise, you need the paper chart backup. you might never lose the electric supply in your boat, but if you only had a plotter and did lose it then maybe a mayday? so you are doubling your chart costs
3/ whilst some electronic chart producers are good, there was a debate on another forum about electronic charts up to 15 years out of date still being sold!
4/ personally i find helming boring and the navigation is a bit of an alternative way of using time when the autohelm is on. you may have a different view.
5/ paper charts make for much more effective planning of long legs. by that i mean it is easier with an electronics system to plan a long leg through hazards not seen because of scale, and to lose the overall view when looking at individual problems. penalty of a small screen.
6/ will you continue to keep a good log, or just drift into relying on the plotter? see 2 above

in favour of plotters
1/ chart plotters dont make silly plotting errors
2/ chart plotters dont get sea sick down below in bad weather.
3/ chart plotters aid single handing.
4/ chart plotters can overlay weather info and tide info

yeoman help with 1 and 3 above but i still havent bought one of them.



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[Guest]

5 years ago, when I started to navigate in the Med, I bought a Simrad CP30 gps plotter and wide area precission maps of France, Italy etc. I would hate to be without this wonderfull and very reliable machine. I use the plotter for trip preparation, course tracking, to find my way through unmarked channels, as anchor watch and and even to determine the best place to drop anchor.
Of course I still practice occasionally my ancient pencil-and-paper skills but I make more mistakes than the plotter. Paper maps are mainly used for trip preparation, position marking and to show visitors how navigation was done in the past.
I'm using also a laptop (an old Toshiba), mainly to receive SSB weather forecasts and maps. It's clear that a laptop, with its keyboard, mouse and power requirements is not as rugged as a professional plotter and for that reason I wouldn't recommend it.

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[Mudplugger]

Have used Vision c.p.(Garmin Logic) for the last couple of years with C.Map charts covering Den Helder/Cherbourg.Gt.Yamouth/Shoreham. absolutely brilliant!!! Would agree with most of what has been said about backing up in the traditional manner, However point to ponder.... if you can afford to go for colour set, do so. makes life much easier, when sticking head down hatch to see where you are, and much easier identification of buoyage and other features.Putting Waypoints in becomes a doddle,and C Map appear to update charts on a regular basis. Have fun and enjoy..

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[Mudplugger]

Have Used Garmin Logic based chart plotter for last couple of years, with C Map covering S.North Sea to Cherbourg & Shoreham. Absolutely Brilliant!!!!. Now use old Garmin128 as back up. Still use trad. Log and Plot on C.Table.. However agree with what has been said so far, but, no-one has mentioned the difference between B&W and Colour. The difference is well worth the exta.. Immediate recog. of buoyage, banks , depths etc. and sticking head down hatch allows immediate recognition of wher you are.. Go for it and enjoy.

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[kazbaz2]

just fitted a navman 55ooi today and it has its own built in aeriel and basic connection, good screen good fast working order ,impressive at only £400 i searched for it on e-bay (the guy has a couple left new) now wouldnt be without one

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[tome]

This is a matter of choice. If you prefer to navigate using paper charts but with the convenience of an almost instantaneous position plot then the Yeoman is the natural choice.

If you used the electronic charting systems on a modern ship with their large clear colour displays you would not be too impressed with the leisure offerings.

Using the Yeoman forces you to have a proper portfolio of paper charts, and I strongly suspect that many users of electronic plotters fail to maintain such a portfolio.

In the end it comes down to preferences, but I wouldn't dismiss the Yeoman quite so readily - it's a great compromise and one which many users are delighted with.

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[vyv_cox]

I totally agree that it's a matter of preference, that's what said in my previous post. However, unless I am much mistaken, the only thing a Yeoman gives you is your position in a little window instead of using the dividers and a pencil to mark the chart. This simply does not compare with a true electronic charting system.

It may well be true that shipping chart systems are bigger and better. I would hope they are. That doesn't change the fact that an electronic plotter in a yacht is an extremely useful device, giving considerably more facilities than a Yeoman does.

I suspect that owning paper charts will become less the 'proper' thing to do over the years. My electronic chart system is far more recent than my paper charts, which it is virtually impossible to continue updating when their numbers reach over 50 or so.

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[tome]

Vyv

You've obviously not used a Yeoman plotter, why not try one out at SBS? It has a series of 4 lights around a lense with an aperture in the centre. The lights are directional, so that any 2 will be lit at one time. You move the device in the direction of the lights until they all go out, and can then mark the position on the chart through the aperture. It's very fast to use and you end up with a mark on the chart which you can annotate.

You can also measure courses and distances from your current position to any feature on the chart, and can select positions and transmit them as waypoints to your GPS (eliminating any keyboard errors).

I agree that updating a large paper portfolio is tedious, but cannot see that electronic charts can replace them until there is a fail-safe method of reading them in the event of power or system failure. Large ships normally have 2 chart systems for backup, but even so have to carry all the paper charts.

The main point I make is that you were dismissive of the Yeoman without knowing what it did - hardly a fair opinion to pass onto others

Regards
Tom



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[vyv_cox]

I don\'t think so

I have never used a Yeoman in anger but I am familiar with their function and I have seen several in use. I would agree that they may make integration of paper charts and a GPS rather more easy but IMHO they do not approach the functionality of an electronic chart plotter.

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[Birdseye]

Re: I don\'t think so

maybe not, but it seems to me that they get rid of the biggest problems with paper charts namely accidental errors inputting position off gps or outputting waypoints to gps.

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[Talbot]

I researched this at length. The first consideration was the type and coverage of the charts. C Map was the best because when the format changed they were still compatible with the older types - something that Garmin and Magellan do not do. The CMap coverage with their superwide system is better and updates are cheaper. Then there is the question of which receiver - I personnally chose the Navman 5500 and have been very very pleased with it. I have it sited in the cockpit so that even when short handed I can see where we are and where the boat is going Whilst not an essential piece of kit - I would not be without it!

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[charles_reed]

Take the point about legacy compatability, but is it valid in practice? I've been using a chartplotter for more than 7 years and am now actively looking at the next evolutionary step.

When deciding on the cartographic format what are the important criteria.

For me, in order of importance:-
1. Low resource demand - I've a sailboat, raster displays pulling 25-30 watts (and that's a dedicated chartplotter not a PC at x3 that) and requiring vast storage media just aren't feasible.
2. The provenance of the information, how accurate and timely is the original cartography? This marks down Navionics who are economical with their royalties.
3. How frequent qnd how accessible are their revisions. We had an example of someone who'd bought a chartplotter and found the charts for his area were 15+ years old.
4. How cost effective are they in £/nM2. Garmin's Bluecharts cover an enormous area and, in terms of cost/area, are easily the best value for money. But someone cruising the S Coast of UK is unlikely to be interested in details of the approaches to the Rade de Brest.
5. How substantial are they and what's the likelihood of them continuing in business to service my needs.
6. How up-to-date is their technology.

I'm actively investigating grading up - for me C-Map is old technology, Navionics and Garmin have made a step change from the tech-levels of Raymarine and C-Map. Of the two I'm more impressed with Garmin, mainly because their infobank is outstandingly good and the cartography they're reproducing is less than 5 years old. They're developing an internet upgrading system which only requires a reasonably fast connection and a CD burner.

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[jimboaw]

I have read all the very informed replies to your question but I am still of the opinion that dedicated chart plotters and the charts chips/disks are way overpriced. I have been using a lap top running "The Captain" software now for 5 years. This is only my second one and the first was retired still in working order. We live aboard so the boat is kept warm and dry. Traditionalists used to come up with the same"what do you do when your GPS goes down" question to which the reply "I get the spare out" applies just as well to lap tops. They are available S/H for very little money on E Bay. Even heavy duty ones like the Panasonic Toughbook can be had for less than $500. Yes, I still have large scale passage charts, a current Reeds and a sextant on board. We are currently in Boston MA. now on the southward leg of our cruise up the US. E. Coast. Total cost of our charts for the trip? about 50 quid all the electronic charts we have used were copied onto my hard drives from disks borrowed from other cruisers. I did buy a couple once but that was a long time ago!! Interestingly. there is no copywrite protection for USDMA charts and it will soon be possible to download most American charts from the their website FOC.

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