Chart Plotters; behind the times?

P

porth

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I used to think I was alone in finding chart plotters frustrating to use. The ones i have seen are anything but intuitive and seem dreadfully slow to react to input.
Had a weekend beginner course in quite heavy weather here in Norway a few weeks ago, and two of the crew were computer software designers. They were fascinated by what they called (in Norwegian) an antique piece of ****.
Have no doubt that they are ok when you have had the thing for a while and learn its foibles, but what about charter crews? Or instructors sailing a boat for the first/only time?
Placing the thing also is a problem. I have been on boats where the plotter is placed on top of the pedastal, so you had to stab at the buttons while holding the wheel still to avoid twisting your fingers off. On this latest boat, a brand new SOi Performance, the plotter was mounted on the back end of the cockpit table mounting, where it was only possible to see/operate while assuming an attitude of prayer. (Quite appropriate at times.)
In my humble, ignorant opinion, there is a lot of work to do for both plotter designers and boat designers?
God I love laminated paper charts.
 
I've got a chartplotter mounted in the cockpit coaming (by previous owner)......awful place to have it. I will be taking it out next winter and will move it into the cabin to use as a backup for my handheld GPS.........not as a chartplotter.
It's GPS and paper charts and magnetic steering compass for me from now on.....
 
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I used to think I was alone in finding chart plotters frustrating to use. ..........

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I used to think I'm alone in not having one nor any particular desire to own one. I use paper charts and a Yeoman for 1% of the time. It works. The other 99% of the time I'm on deck enjoying sailing.
 
Chart plotters when used to give a moving graphic representation of where you are are great - they require little power, are viewable throughout everything except direct sunlight (even then they can be viewed just!) and can give effective and quick reassurance of where you are without having to rely on DR, EP, 3 point fixes or transposing a standard GPS onto a Chart - usually down below ...
They usually have a stable operating system too - and locked down so the (ab)user cannot load their own programs and crash it that way.

Where they fall down is the user interactivity on them ... we are now all so used to a computer/keyboard & mouse that the (often) clunky interfaces send the user scurrying back to the manual... also the mirriad of cables that come out of the back are only there to tax the brains of even the most compitant of IT staff...

You can have a touch screen waterproof plotter, with proper keyboard and mouse, running any software you desire - it can even integrate all your instruments, radar and have access to the internet - you could watch Eastenders whilst crossing the shipping lanes if you desired .... and had the money to pay for it all!! .... this is where the chart plotters come in - cheap .... well relatively - compared to the alternative electronics ...

As for where they are mounted - that is hardly the fault of the chartplotter manufacturers is it!!
 
Depends on what sort of sailing you're doing. In the open sea away from hazards, you might as well switch it off. In waters you know well...then maybe do the same. When in unfamiliar waters, bad weather or close proximity to dangers, I wouldn't be without one! But...it HAS to be mounted where it can be seen / operated in all conditions, and for a short-handed crew that is in front of the helmsman. If not, then it needs to be moved to a better position, not relegated to the chart table IMO.
 
Not at all the discussion I expected from the title. I have a smaal boat and a Lowrance plotter mounted under the spray hood. I can see it easily from the tiller. Yes you do need to learn how to use it but its not difficult. It does show where you are and where you are going all the time and instantly. In crowded rocky archipelgoes in Sweden it is marvellous. I can put in a 60 plus waypoint route in a minute or two.
What worries me is the updating of the charts. Some makes get updated, some don't. Even the better ones are behind the chart corrections so yes you should have paper charts as well.
I would appreciate a properly conducted study comparing e-chart accuracy and update state.
I would certainly like to have a chart plotter the next time I'm going along a narrow but well buoyed channel when suddenly one buoy goes and hides behind it's neighbour!. It's mooring had failed. In the immortal words of Donal Green " in these waters the shoals are mainly of granite".
 
My main gripe with them is the redraw speed.

Seeing the speed at which Google Earth can pan, zoom, then backfill the detail, or looking at a game (Far Cry) from 2004 - compared to my supposedly "leading edge" Raymarine E80 which can take 1-2s to redraw sometimes /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
But the requirements of the two are fundamentally different.....

For sure you could have a plotter that gave Google Earth like speed and detail....

But your plotter would be fragile, need significant effort in time to get working properly, and would draw 8 Amps from the battery....

I'd rather have a slowish plotter that is stable, and draws less than an amp from the battery....

The Norwegian designers referred to by the OP are falling into the classic techy trap, that being leading edge or nearby is good, being otherwise is bad..... that depends a great deal upon your perspective and needs....
 
Re: Chart Plotters; best things since sliced bread

Well what a load of tosh! Clearly those that want to carry on with charts enjoy coming into a tricky area at night with a gales up their bum trying to place their craft at the same time as helming it.

We have a chart plotter at the helm and a repeater at the chart table. Yes, neither is touch screen and the graphics, compared to computer games or in-car nav, are poor. But compared with fooling around with charts, with the inherent problem of misplottting either from a GPS or a cocked hat, they are in a different league.

I suspect that we'll have the same debate about plotters as we had about GPS about 10 years ago. It will all blow over once people have had a chance to use and understand both their strengths and weaknesses.

I was talking at the weekend to a lady who has a dozen or more transats under her belt. She is in her late eighties and was saying how much she would like to have had a chart plotter on her boats 30 and 40 years ago.

Clearly, their use in home territory or open sea is limited inmost circumstances but even then when trying to go across a strong tide with to a tight entrance of a port the bearing line is invaluable to get there with no problems. True, you could use a transit but in murky conditions.......
 
I agree. A primary requirement for a chart plotter is reliability and ruggedness. I have no problem with the human interface on most plotters though this may be because I have experience of a wide range of different models.

In some ways I think the current range of plotters has become too sophisticated - all this three-D imaging allowing you to fly over and dive under the water is way OTT for me.

Some of the apparent slowness in refreshing charts is down to the cartography not the plotter software.
 
I have my 10" Plotter mounted on the wheel. Makes life so much easier when sailing short handed in congested waters riddled with sandbanks.

I of course anyway use, and mark up my laminated paper charts on longer journeys. But steering (automatically) directly from my plotter just makes life so much easier and allows me time to carry out other needy tasks..
 
I think a lot of this argument comes down to the name. If they were called "GPS with chart" you wouldn't get the same antagonism IMHO. Sailing shorthanded I find my Gamin invaluable, neatly mounted under the sprayhood, easy to adjust so I can see it from the helm.

I do find many of the sceptics sail with plenty of crew and have a plotter at the chart table, but as has been said a good blow in the CI, singlehanded and I doubt many would not be grateful for one.
 
It was the same when Harrison invented his confounded timepiece to give us longitude. I much prefered the old days where one had to bleed a dog based in London and then cut it daily at Noon to establish position.
 
Interesting discussion. I see a chart as giving a visual impression of my position relative to dangers. I also see a chart plotter as giving a visual impression of my position relative to dangers. What's the difference? The chart plotter is automatic and conveniently located at my wheel. A paper chart is manual and bulkier. The end result should be the same.

The chartplotter may be capable of doing many other things too, but there is no necessity ever to use those options.

I tried the bleeding dog after reading Longitude, but it produced a lot of mess that needed to be cleaned up. In future I think it might be easier to exploit quantum entanglement.
 
I don't see it that way at all.

Unstable is not the opposite of slow. Ease of use does not imply fragility. Similarly, speed isn't necessarily at the expense of power consumption: a lot of the current draw from an E80 is the powerful screen backlight (which is fab).

The industry needs a new generation of software!

Furuno / Navnet have cottoned to this already and are already advertising products with a much faster redraw delay (Navnet 3D). I would guess that the rest won't be far behind.

Not picking on Raymarine particularly, but there are many idiosyncrasies with Raymarine kit that we just take for granted, because it's always been that way, and we are used to it.

e.g.

- The zoom in/out stops working if you push any softkeys, and you don't first return to the "top" level ... Why?

- Scrolling around the chart to have a peek is such a basic function, yet the page doesn't even start to move until the cursor touches the far edge of the screen. Then it goes steaming off a bit too far. Then you have to move the cursor all the way back again to the other edge to get it to go back ... all the time flashing away trying to redraw the frame ... Why?

dv.
 
When I am sat on my mooring, the chartplotter puts me in the carpark about 150m away, whereas, when I plot from the GPS onto my chart it shows me at the correct position.........I know which one I trust!
 
I have no problem with any form of electrical gadgetry on a boat so long as they are there to enhance the experience and are not there as a substitute for a lack of skill, no-how or ability.
 
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