chart p[lotter

[ginwoodf]

I'm trying to decide between a chart plotter and a laptop pc running electronic charts linked to my gps. the upside of the laptop set up would be the ability to watch a film or two whilst moored, the plotter is cheaper, though. Does anyone using a pc in this way have any opinions??
Thanks all.......Ginwoodf
(Crecerelle)

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[Chris_Stannard]

I investigated between the two and decided on a chart plotter because of the low battery life of the pc, the need for an inverter to run the pc, which wastes a lot of battery, the problems of corrosion in a pc in the marine environment, and because i am told that if yo boat is throwing arond in a seaway it can upset the pc's harddrive.

Hope this helps

<hr width=100% size=1>Chris Stannard

 

[Rich_F]

I chose a PC over a plotter, for the following reasons.

- More versatile, not only when chart plotting, but the PC also doubles up for entertainment, email access, weather charts, etc.

- Cheaper - I wanted a new PC to use at home in any case.

- Cheaper - I can scan my paper charts, rather than buying (and maintaining) a second, electronic set.

- Bigger screen - I'm mounting a flat-screen monitor so that I can keep the PC out of the way at sea.

- Cons are power consumption, and robustness. I've recently upgraded my batteries, and by boat doesn't tend to slam, so I'm hoping that these won't be a problem.

Rich

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[tome]

Have you looked at the Yeoman plotter? It uses paper cahrts and I use it in preference to an electronic plotter as I can carry on plotting seamlessly if all goes pear shape.

I work for a survey company and develop navigation equipment for vehicles and small boats. During the course of a typical survey, we had so many problems with PCs (including top-of-the range laptops) that we developed our own system at great expense. This has an inner chassis which is shock mounted to the outer case and a high spec disk drive meeting military standards. It also has integral GPS and mil connectors throughout. We've used it on airboats in the Louisiana swamps, marsh buggys (tracked amphibians), small jack-up rigs, hovercraft, and all manner of boats and land vehicles. It gets a real hammering and has a bomb-proof reputation but costs a lot more than I could afford.

If you are going to use a PC on board then I'd advise you to power it off and stow it securely until you are safely moored alongside. If you want electronic charting underway go for a dedicated plotter.

Others may disagree, I wish I'd taken some photos of the PCs we junked!



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[zefender]

PC based for me. Most come with a 'car adaptor' so can be connected to 12v without the need for an invertor. Pc advantage (as well as DVDs) is email, weather charts, bigger screen, mobility (passage planning at home) and so on. I've had no dampness problems with the PC (it even caught a bath when someone left the hatch near the nav table open - slept for two days and recovered) nor have I noticed any damage to hard disc in the motion. I suggest a cheapie as a workhorse and maybe a more expensive one as backup/DVDs etc.



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[jmp]

Agree with tome. Look at a Yeoman.
Have deliberated for along time ,and gone for Yeoman in the end .
Purpose made for marine environment,uses paper charts, which I beleive essential anyway,whatever electronics are being used ,simple and in my non IT knowlege ,user friendly .
Most people on board ,given some little instruction, would be able to cope in an emergency ! Heaven Forbid. I feel however there are more often times this would be a comfort than at first thought.

<hr width=100% size=1>jmp<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by jmp on 25/04/2003 14:03 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[vyv_cox]

I totally agree with you about the PC although my personal choice was not for a Yeoman but for a Garmin. The general reliability and performance of a PC or laptop is nowhere near good enough for a primary navigation system IMHO. Only this morning my PC missed some files when starting up, necessitating a reboot and safe mode start followed by time consuming checking. Crashes are rarer than they used to be but they certainly still occur.

I owned a monochrome Garmin plotter for several years, then upgraded to a full colour one about three years ago. These have both been totally reliable, simple to use, can be taken home for planning purposes, robust, waterproof and power-frugal. I use it in addition to paper charts which are the primary navigation system.

I use a laptop on board in port for weatherfax, entertainment, downloading digital photos, etc but it travels well wrapped up in a locker as far from the water as possible.

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[Aeolus_IV]

Re: chart plotter

Having used laptops for some years and CP for longer I can offer the following observations:

While most PC equipment has quite a high tolerance to shock (physical not electrical), this is almost always while off, not running. So doing your navigation "live and on line" isn't really an option. My personal concern would be damage to the display and display hinge rather than the hard disk. Add to that the inevitable fact that you will get water onto and in the keyboard should convince you not try this.

So using a dedicated GPS/Chartplotter (electronic or paper based) seem to be a good idea.

But this doesn't stop you from using a PC in port - you are in a much better position to control the operating environment, and it would present you with potentially a far better platform for passage planning etc, which could then (potentially) be downloaded into your GPS/Chartplotter.

Well, then goes another 2p worth.

Regards, Jeff.

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[Jules]

Stick the laptop where it wont get wet but still can be seen from the helm. I put mine (15" screen) on Scootguard on bubblewrap on the main table, tied to the mast post. the boat would have to have the mast in the water for it to move. Slamming hasn't affected it yet.
Try Maptech's new charts with live tidal data. Cheap and vv impressive system.
Paper charts are needed as a backup, but I am tending to use larger scale ones and a good almanac for the area.
PC and raster charts everytime.
Cheers
Jules

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: chart plotter

I have a navionics plotter, internal aerial. I can mount it on the helm or by the nav station, uses teensey amount of power, is fully waterproof and floats (apparently).

I bought a second user IBM 300MHz laptop for all other stated applications, which works perfectly well, my games machine is at home.

I would suggest buying a big name laptop, the quality of this IBM compared with the no name units selling in curries etc. in incredible.

But my choice for the primary navigation on board was a dedicated plotter; I would not like to just have a laptop for this purpose, too unreliable and power hungry. Unless someone has finally found an OS that will not throw a wobbly.


<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue> Julian </font color=blue>

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[TonyS]

I had to make a similar decision with my new boat which fitted Raymarine electronics as the sole supplier. I opted for the colour plotter on the binnacle and used the Raymarine interface to have a laptop on the chart table. When day sailing around the Solent you do not want to be down below looking at anything. The chartplotter, even though only 7" is excellent to see where you are and is simple to use to enter Newtown river for example without bothering about leading marks. It is accurate to around 3 m. It even shows me sitting on my pontoon on the Marina. When crossing the Channel in good conditions you don't want to be sat behind the wheel, especially at night. The computer is then ideal. The screen is much larger and shows radar images as well in much better definition and can also use the MARPA facility. The only use for the computer around the Solent is to watch a DVD in the late evening. I bought a cheap notebook on Ebay as it needed a serial interface and most new models don't have that. The intrument data can also be seen on the screen. Ididn't want to spend a fortune on a second plotter for those occasional times when one is below. Most laptops do not run on 12 volts so I bought a cheap 150W inverter for 40 pounds which works perfectly form the cigar socket. I am very pleased with the setup after overcoming the software learning curve. You can plan routes, tides etc on the laptop and download it to the plotter on arriving on board. The two systems then run together if required. If you want any more details please let me know.

<hr width=100% size=1>Tony

 

[Oldhand]

Hmm..depends what you think of the charts used on dedicated chart plotters and the rather high possibility of errors in their preparation. They tend to be vector charts which have 2 disadvantages. 1. They can be magnified well beyond the scale of the chart the data was digitised from giving a false sense of accuracy and 2. Detail is lost in the digitising process and line features on the chart become points joined by straight lines. Absolutely everything on them depends on the copying accuracy of the people producing them.

PC chratplotting software can usually use raster charts which are direct scans of the paper charts we have trusted for decades or more and are still required to carry and use. The only error which can take place in their preparation is in referencing the chart to the co-ordinate system. I wonder how the correspondent who (probably illegally) scans his own charts references them?

I am getting relaible performance form a a Micro PC (about 6" square and less than 2" high) powered from a 12v/18v DC/DC converter, an Ir Keyboard/Mouse unit and a 15" TFT screen built in to the chart table console. It seems relaible and when quietly chart-plotting in the background with the screen "asleep" only draws about 1.5A. It is also connected to an ICOM PCR1000 communications receiver and provides Navtex, RTTY and Weatherfax reception on the PC with appropriate software, as well as any other radio reception one might wish to chose.

I can thus recommend a well thought out PC installation.

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[oldsalt]

I use a Garmin 76 Map as my sensible plotter, but have bought a £200 IBM laptop off ebay as well. This runs charting software and as long as I keep spray off it, has been totally reliable for the last 1000 miles of sailing. Main snag has been high power consumption, but I can use it for many other uses as well. Screen resolution and size is far better than any dedicated plotter.

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[PeterGibbs]

Re: A radar would be a better use of money!

Q.E.D.

PWG

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[colvic]

I have to agree with Oldhand. We've had a full blown desktop pc with 15 LCD screen for over four years and wouldn't be without it. Apart from the chart plotting using Admiralty Arcs charts, now about £80 a folio of 10, we used the digital camera through it, watched DVD's, e-mail and internet, faxing etc. all very useful when away from the office, and the TV card allowed us to watch TV or a video. Wouldn't be without it.

Yes, the desktop does use a lot of power but as we are a motor sailer we use power about 905 of the time..the one big problem in the Med.


Phil

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[HaraldS]

Don't think I can give you a definite answer. This is one of cases where you end up with both options if you can afford it. If I had to choose just one, I would go for the PC because you really need a laptop for so many things that you almost ought to have one. And then it works as a reasonable chartplotter, without big expense.

But.. I don't have my laptop on all the time, and I really can't use it in the cockpit. Even the best laptop display fades in the sun, the good plotter displays are another world. Also the power consumption of a laptop is often up to ten times higher.

Integrated dedicated units, like plotter/radar/sounder/etc.. save space, that you'd rather use for having two control heads, like one at the chart table and one in the cockpit. If I run mine with two displays turned on, plus the 4kW radar going, it still takes about half the power of my IBM-Thinkpad.

If you however have radar, and all that, and you are only looking for a plotter, then it's less clear.

With my current set-up I consider the plotter capability of the laptop as the backup solution and in addition I use the PC for planning, weather routing, e-mail, RTTY etc. But the always-on device is the combined radar/plotter.

Another benefit of the laptop solution is, provided the right program, that it digests all chart formats and you are not bound to just one source. I find it interesting to compare them and look at a few, arther than just one.

The PC-solution also allows you to buy charts as you go, whereas for the plotter you usually need to buy a cartridge. The exception here are Garmin, who allow to download from the PC to the plotter, after buying the code. On the other hand you could consider them even more closed, beacuse you are tied to their plotters when you buy their charts; so far you can just look at them on the PC with the Garmin SW, but the user interface is poor and you can't 'navigate' on the PC.

I think the future will be a mix of hardware interfaces and special displays with regular PCs, integrating all instruments from radar to vhf.. but as far as I can see this will go with signifficant power consumption.


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