Channel Crossing

[MeritaII]

Does anyone know if there is a group that crosses the channel especially for older/slower boats, like mine ! ( 6 to 7 knots max!) . Or is there someone else in a simmilar situation to the following.
We want to go next season (2004) to spend the summer on the canals and our boat is a lightly built 37ft double ender , 1939( rebuilt last two years), although she sails ( a bit) it is more of a 'get you home rig', disguised as Gaff !
I would prefer to go in company because we only have one engine and I don't want to be in the shipping lanes trying to get out of the way of some Ferry using only our sailing rig also I don't have radar (if it gets foggy) .
It just seems like common sense, if we have the opportunity, to go with someone else or a group of boats.

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[hlb]

It's OK to go with other boats, but I'm not sure it's right to ask them to nurse maid you. Course if you got in trouble, Every one who could would help. But really think you should be self contained and buy the equipment you feel you need, rather than relying on others. Or stay somewhere you feel more capable of.

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[MeritaII]

Hi , thanks for the reply ( I think) , I don't believe that it is a case of needing anyone to nursemaid me , that is not the point, and I certainly would never go to sea unless fully prepared. I have 30 years at sea and I know what it can do and why I can only see good sense in going in company with people of a like mind.
I don't see any negatives unless a person is so confident they think they know it all and are prepared for everything, and Ive met a few of those, normally after they have been towed in by the lifeboat !
The point is that with a slow single engined boat it might be safer ( and that is the key word here) to go with others of a like mind, and frankly I like the company of other people anyway . I'm certainly not asking anyone with a fast boat to hang around or wetnurse me and that is not what I requested.

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[hlb]

<font color=red>" I don't want to be in the shipping lanes trying to get out of the way of some Ferry using only our sailing rig also I don't have radar (if it gets foggy) ."</font color=red>

So you want a tow, by some one with radar. Or am I missing the point.



<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[AuntyRinum]

Join one of the South Coast yacht clubs with a Cruising Section. They do cross channels through the summer and 6 to 7 knots would be regarded has a reasonable speed.

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[LadyInBed]

You don't say where you would depart from and head to!

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[vyv_cox]

I would think that the vast majority of Scuttlebutt posters have boats with a maximum speed of about 6-7 knots and a single engine. Include all the AWB's, most sailing yachts up to about 38 ft, even many displacement motor boats. Loads of these don't have radar.

Crossing shipping lanes is not such a big deal, although the problems escalate at highly compressed points like Dover Strait. The advantage, from our point of view, is that most ships do at least post a lookout in these areas, not necessarily so when the dangers of collision are less apparent.

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[summerwind]

Yes. I'm one of the forum members who would say that 6 - 7 knots was not particularly slow.

No. I don't agree that you should cross the channel without radar, fog or not. Crossing at the western end of the channel you have two sets of shipping going each way, one on the French side and one on the English side and they are all making for, or coming from the mid-channel separation zone. They tend to be about 2 miles apart from each other and following each other like three lines of ducks each way. Zig-zagging between 12 lines of massive shipping is not a game to play blindfolded, especially if you have doubts about anyone being on the bridge.

On top of that you have the French trawlers who couldn't give a rat's ass about anyone but themselves. They certainly will not get out of your way, even if they do see you.

A wooden boat is going to have a very poor radar image, so even if the big ships are keeping a good lookout, their radar probably won't pick the boat up.

Considering the cost/benefit analysis of a bottom end of the market radar and losing your boat, there's no argument that I can see that justifies crossing the channel without radar.

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[tony_brighton]

We've crossed a number of times without radar - and I agree with what you say based on our experience - it certainly would be useful - especially when visibility deteriorates.

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[vyv_cox]

I suspect that for many yachtsmen a radar remains a 'nice to have' rather than an imperative. Looking around marinas suggests that there are more without than with. I have recently bought radar and agree that it is useful and adds a lot to one's knowledge of the positions of other obstacles. But essential in good visibility? I don't think so. Having crossed from UK to Europe many times, between Penzance - Morgat right through to Scheveningen - Lowestoft, day and night, I can honestly say that I have never been in a position where I felt likely to be collided with. Maybe fortunately, hence the new radar. I still would not rate it essential, though.

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[summerwind]

I respect what you say BUT (As they say on BBC news reports) can't agree. I suspect that your own experience and the fact that you have bought a radar supports my view. There aren't many things that I have strong views about, but this is one of them.

Just think about that car carrier (Can't remember the name just now) that sank in one of the busiest parts of the channel. It was hit by two other vessels, despite the presence bouys, regular warnings and of a warship screaming at one of them over the radio to keep away. Now, do you want to put your boat and your life in the hands of tossers like that?

The radar gives me an accurate track of what is ahead and allows me to judge if I am in harm's way or not. Regardless of any rules, if it looks like I am going to get into any danger I slow down, turn or whatever in plenty of time to make sure my boat is out of harm's way. How often have you heard people express surprise at how fast a large vessel bore down on them?

I agree that most boats in the marina don't sport radar antennae, but how many of them cross the channel?

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[vyv_cox]

I bought mine for one reason only - fog. Well, maybe dark too.

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[jimi]

I got caught in poor visibility mid channel once with the family, never again. First thing I did upon returning from that trip was to buy radar. BTW fog had not been forecast.

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[paulrossall]

I have read all the other replies and think you are sensible to ask your question. We went Dover Calais in May 2001 and only had an outboard 15hp and boat was a T24. Shipping lanes were not too busy, we did not have to alter our course to miss anyone. I don't think I would set off in fog even with radar. Radar can pack up just like anything else. I agree it is better to go over in company from a safety point of view which is why so many clubs organise trips.
If you have wife and kids on board there is no doubt it increases the pressure on you. If I sail with 3 or 4 mates who are all experienced sailors and who could all command the boat then I am more relaxed about any new, or longer than average, maybe difficult trip.
I think you would be better asking this question much nearer your departure time. I recon 90% of all sailors would rather travel over in company than go alone. There will always be the odd Rambo who has all the equipment and feels the urge to go it alone, but that's not me. Good luck.
PS The T24 went into French canals at Calais and down to the Med. I only did first few days of the trip but chaps on boat said it was a brilliant experience.
Paul

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[AndrewB]

If you are east coast based it might be worth getting in touch with the White Cliffs Motorboat & Sailing Club at Dover, secretary Marien.Elgar@canterbury.gov.uk. They do regular cruises in company from Dover to Calais and Boulogne, and are used to supporting first-timers going across. Calais, and I think Boulogne, lead direct into the European canal system.

With a single engine, I think you are sensible in looking for support. Dover coastguard and lifeboat services pull a number of broken down motor boats out of the TSS each year, and they are not viewed kindly.

 

[DeeGee]

This summer, I crossed at about the Varne LV, on the way to Bloin. We had friends in loose company, about 2M behind. We had just come to the southern, WtoE lane, when he radio'd that his engine had seized. Broad daylight, no wind, we were both motoring.

I, of course, went back, and after a bit took him in tow and we got back into the pink bit in between. We radio'd CG to give a sitrep, as we didn't fancy crossing the lane with only 3kts, and other vessels not looking out for us. As it happens, after an hour or so, he was able to restart his engine.

If he had been alone, it would have been a pretty nervy situtation, but not so very different.

If you have an old engine you don't trust, and the boat is a dog sailer, it seems pretty sensible to have some company, and if you are going to get company, someone with radar is a bonus.


<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all

 

[hlb]

<font color=red>If you have an old engine you don't trust, and the boat is a dog sailer, it seems pretty sensible to</font color=red>........Not go at all..??

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[DeeGee]

Where is your spirit of adventure? Of course we should make sure everything is optimal, everything works... but if you do your sailing on a shoestring (as I have) and your boat is fundamentally sound, the only factor being the reliability of a rather old engine - I reckon that going alone would be ok, but far better to have a buddy who can stand by you one way or another. No wind, he can help by towing, plenty wind, ok we just get on with sailing.

Many sailors on this and other boards will have crossed the Channel and North Sea in boats which didn't have an engine, and who would have thought 6-7kts pretty tasty! We shouldn't be conditioned by our reliable modern diesels. True, getting into a marina might be a bit niffy without, but otherwise....?

<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all

 

[MeritaII]

Many thanks for the replies, of course all opinions are valuable. However misguided some may seem, I am sure everyone is interested in safety in the end.

I think that the main thread of my first post was misunderstood totally, the idea was to perhaps gain some information about groups that go together for more safety. and peace of mind. I thought it would be a plesant and safer way to go at our relatively slow pace and make an enjoyable trip of it but add a larger degree of safty for ALL concerned not just myself.
If someone has radar ( I wish I had never mentioned it frankly) then that would be great, we may even fit one ourselves over this winter, else we would have to do what we have done before and rely on the weather forcast and follow good advice from the HM Coast Guard.
Almost everytime I have had anything to do with breakdowns at sea it has been me doing the towing, not the other way around, because I have an elderly boat dosn't mean anything , most boats I've towed have been 'youngsters' and some with two engines also ! People who think that it can never happen to them must be the ones that don't belong to the AA or RAC ashore, because their car is perfect ( yeah!- right!)
The sad fact of life is that there are thousands of tonnes of rubbish and disguarded nets, assorted rope, carrier bags , containers and oil drums lurking just below the surface to either damage your boat or wrap itself around you prop(s) , let alone the hundred things that can go wrong on even a short trip. It doesn't matter if you have one engine or ten, you are going two miles or two hundred.
A radar can help you to 'see' into the distance, but not into the future, it is a very usefull bit of kit , but no one should rely on it 100%
The problem comes when 300,000 tonns of container ship are bearing down on you because you are dead in the water, at that point there is only one place to be and that is "Somewhere Else" , never mind rules of the road and who should give way to who. At that time you are going to need instant assistance and why for all concerned I think that going as a group makes perfect sense.
I doubt very much that the Coast Guard of RNLI would agree that people should be alone in such a busy shipping area .
And I still like the idea of going in company, radar or not!
I am also pleased that other people think the same way.


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[hlb]

Ah. You make alot more sense this time round.../forums/images/icons/smile.gif

I had visions of some one doing twenty odd knots and rescueing you from the jaws of death under the bows of a container ship!!

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn