Changes to Uk boat fuel

mjf

mjf

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I cannot remember when or where I heard or read this, but can someone tell me if the Red we buy in the UK is being changed to some other grade of mdo / mgo.


If there is a change of spec when will it occur and what are the implications please?


or - am I barking?

Thanks
 
mjf said:
Thanks

So as I understand it the LoSo will be for inland use and the usual stuff
(HiSo mgo) is unchanged for us deep sea boys :-)

LoSo is more expensive in the oil market and as I understand it does have some engine wear issues too.
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No. I read that it is for inland and leisure use. I read 'sea going' as big ships and trawlers.

"If gas oil is supplied for sea going marine use, there is no requirement for it to be virtually sulphur free, but if it is supplied for inland waterways vessels and recreational craft that will be used on the inland waterways, then the sulphur content will be restricted. "
 
Major Catastrophe said:
No. I read that it is for inland and leisure use. I read 'sea going' as big ships and trawlers.

"If gas oil is supplied for sea going marine use, there is no requirement for it to be virtually sulphur free, but if it is supplied for inland waterways vessels and recreational craft that will be used on the inland waterways, then the sulphur content will be restricted. "
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I read it as per post #3.

One of the linked documents on the RYA site states :

Gas oil sold for inland waterway vessels and recreational craft when used on inland waterways is required to be sulphur free by 1st January 2011. Gas oil for sea-going marine use is not required to be sulphur free. It is not anticipated that suppliers of marine fuel will switch to sulphur free, but you may wish to confirm this with your supplier nearer the time.
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We were at Swanwick marina recently and a guy showing a testing kit for fuel contamination said in the new year diesel fuel for marine use would be sulphur free. I can see in time we will be paying the full rate for marine fuel with no reductions. I hope I’am wrong but that’s my feeling.
David
 
It seems to differentiate between 'sea going marine use' and 'inland waterways vessels and recreational craft that will be used on the inland waterways'.

So my view is if your not on the inland waterways, you're sea going. You must be one or the other! So I'm with post #3.
 
PaulGooch said:
I read it as per post #3.

One of the linked documents on the RYA site states :

Quote:
Gas oil sold for inland waterway vessels and recreational craft when used on inland waterways is required to be sulphur free by 1st January 2011. Gas oil for sea-going marine use is not required to be sulphur free. It is not anticipated that suppliers of marine fuel will switch to sulphur free, but you may wish to confirm this with your supplier nearer the time.
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Put that way, yes, I agree with you. The RYA's story is ambiguous.
 
Department for Transport issued notices an awful long time ago and is perfectly clear. Why the RYA included the the marine statement I have no idea.

'EU Directive 2009/30/EC introduces a requirement that, from 1st January 2011, all gas oil (commonly known in the UK as 'red diesel') marketed for use in “non-road mobile machinery (NRMM)” i.e.” off-road equipment”, and recreational craft must contain no more than 10 milligrams of sulphur per kilogram of fuel (virtually ‘sulphur free’). NRMM includes tractors and other agricultural equipment, forestry equipment, construction equipment, forklifts, portable generators, railway engines, and inland waterway vessels. In the case of gas oil for use in railway vehicles the introduction of sulphur free gas oil will be one year later (1st January 2012).'

Term sulpher free is a little confusing, yes there is sulphur in there but in quantities too small to easily measure.

As to 'marine use' I suspect this is all about ships bunker fuels. Out of touch with modern medium and slow speed diesels now, which run on heavy oil, however required to switch to diesel fuel when manoevering in port due to IMO regulations, suspect this is where the derogation is aimed. Plenty of proper engine men look in here to give the correct interpretation. Either way nothing to do with UK small vessel operation where EU Directive 2009/30/EC simply applies.
 
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The picture of the narrowboat is also misleading, the thrust of the directive regarding inland waterways is intended to include Rhine this stuff....
 
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Latestarter1 said:
Department for Transport issued notices an awful long time ago and is perfectly clear. Why the RYA included the the marine statement I have no idea.

'EU Directive 2009/30/EC introduces a requirement that, from 1st January 2011, all gas oil (commonly known in the UK as 'red diesel') marketed for use in “non-road mobile machinery (NRMM)” i.e.” off-road equipment”, and recreational craft must contain no more than 10 milligrams of sulphur per kilogram of fuel (virtually ‘sulphur free’). NRMM includes tractors and other agricultural equipment, forestry equipment, construction equipment, forklifts, portable generators, railway engines, and inland waterway vessels. In the case of gas oil for use in railway vehicles the introduction of sulphur free gas oil will be one year later (1st January 2012).'

Term sulpher free is a little confusing, yes there is sulphur in there but in quantities too small to easily measure.

As to 'marine use' I suspect this is all about ships bunker fuels. Out of touch with modern medium and slow speed diesels now, which run on heavy oil, however required to switch to diesel fuel when manoevering in port due to IMO regulations, suspect this is where the derogation is aimed. Plenty of proper engine men look in here to give the correct interpretation. Either way nothing to do with UK small vessel operation where EU Directive 2009/30/EC simply applies.
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I think you will find that commercial vessels run on IFO (heavy black fuel) but even this needs to be LoSo from a line Northward of Falmouth.

Mdo/Mgo is used sometimes for manoeuvring and at sea for aux generators unless these are designed to run on heavy fuel too. In the case od mdo/mgo burners the LoSo run applies from falmouth too
 
Well, I'm confused now.

Reading through all the threads, I have no idea who is and who is not required to use something or other. :confused:

Use of IFO, mdo/mgo, and LoSo helped me though. :rolleyes:
 
'line Northward of Falmouth.' I would assume this zone has been designated an ECA. However 1% sulphur is hardly low sulphur as mandated by EU Directive 2009/30/EC.

Emissions of air pollutants from international shipping are regulated by Annex VI to the International Convention on the Prevention of Pollution from Ships (MARPOL), which was originally signed in September 1997 and came into force in May 2005. Annex VI sets limits on the sulphur content of marine fuel oils and on the emissions of nitrogen oxides (NOx) from new ship engines.

Annex VI also sets a limit of 1.5 per cent sulphur for marine fuel oil used by ships sailing in designated Emission Control Areas (ECAs) – the Baltic Sea was the first ECA to enter into force in 2006, followed by the North Sea in 2007. The revised Annex VI lowers the sulphur limit in ECAs to 1.0 per cent from July 2010 and to 0.1 per cent as from 2015.

Either way RYA responsible for confusing the hell out of people.
 
SolentPhill said:
so do we think that you would be able to buy an additive like the unleaded petrol situation, we then add sulphur at the right mix??
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Forget the sulphur, Sweden has effectively zero sulphur for almost ten years in city buses and the lubricity issues were nailed a while back it is the biofuel element which requires a fresh approach to fuel management. If you think you had problems with the bug you aint seen nothing yet!

I tried to give the heads up over on the 'other channel' so to speak, but it was hard work.http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235835&page=3.

Over two years ago, when we lost the derogation tried to give a warning on what was just around the corner, with regard to the legal impact of the HMRC's decision re red diesel, ie Belgium and France stated at the time they would not be be bound by a UK fudge and red diesel would be subject to EU law and classed as illegal. Together with the impending EU Directive on low sulphur commercial fuels and its impact.

Other than the usual clamour to shoot the messenger, nobody appears to have taken anything on board.
 
Latestarter1 said:
Forget the sulphur, Sweden has effectively zero sulphur for almost ten years in city buses and the lubricity issues were nailed a while back it is the biofuel element which requires a fresh approach to fuel management. If you think you had problems with the bug you aint seen nothing yet!

I tried to give the heads up over on the 'other channel' so to speak, but it was hard work.http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235835&page=3.

Over two years ago, when we lost the derogation tried to give a warning on what was just around the corner, with regard to the legal impact of the HMRC's decision re red diesel, ie Belgium and France stated at the time they would not be be bound by a UK fudge and red diesel would be subject to EU law and classed as illegal. Together with the impending EU Directive on low sulphur commercial fuels and its impact.

Other than the usual clamour to shoot the messenger, nobody appears to have taken anything on board.
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Well, I m making no progress in understanding this thread. So what is it I need to take on board?
 
gjgm said:
Well, I m making no progress in understanding this thread. So what is it I need to take on board?
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If i have it right, when the change takes place you need to keep an eye on your pipes and seals, in case the bio fuel buggers things up. You also need to be extra careful with water contamination, make sure your filtration is top notch, change your filters after a couple of tankfuls and avoid leaving the fuel stored for more than three months.

Given that

a) Fuel tanks are best kept full, reduces moisture ingress caused by condensation.

b) Fuels containing bio fuel are best not stored for longer than three months.

Not sure where that leaves mobos with large capacity tanks that don't do mega miles, or saily boats that only use a pint of fuel a year.
 
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