Change and decay in all around I see.

[Keith 66]

I remember going up to Fenchurch street with Dad on the train to get charts from Potters, In Southend the chandlers were Shoreline, Davis's & Boatacs, plus Mikes boatyard down the old town. All gone now.
Came into the ray on Sunday & was struck how empty the Southend shore is of boats today, two small yachts off TEYC & a good few up at Essex & LSC moorings, the rest empty. The yards & clubs full of dead or dying boats.
As for the boatbuilders, I started in the trade in the late 70's, In our local area there was a lot of work, Thames marine, Prouts, Jaguar yachts then the repair yards all busy. All virtually gone. Waterfront development Or should i call it Chavification? The recreational craft directive directly caused many small boatbuilders out but they were going to go anyway.
The Rya didnt help with its insistence of kids learning in single handed boats, they took the fun out of learning to sail, after all who wants to learn to sailwhile being shouted at by an adult in a flubber?

 

[Kukri]

^Those are very good points.^

What started me off on this thread was a trip by car with my two sons to visit DRS Rigging in Southminster, in search of a new forestay for the younger son’s Squib. (Broke on Saturday, replacement made in thirty minutes on Monday morning, by a real keelboat rigging expert who told us the measurements, whilst other firms were thinking about answering the email and asking for measurements - which illustrates the value of small local firms!).

On the way home to Suffolk we called in at some favourite places - Heybridge Basin, Tollesbury and West Mersea. None of them looked flourishing, from the messing about in boats point of view.

The point about learning in single handers is a particularly good one. I learned in an RNSA 14, with a brother, a sister and a parent. We had read “Swallows and Amazons” before starting, of course.

 

[PeterWright]

Hi,

I strongly agree about the mistake of teaching sailing in single handers. Firstly, the importance of good crew communication is lost and secondly the interaction between main and headsail is lost. The childrens'boats of my era were cadets a nd mirrors, both of which featured spinnakers as well.

Fortunately, my time as a RYA dinghy instructor had passed before they started insisting on single handers for beginners, although I continued in that role long enough to be a bit mystified by the need to get a level 2 power boat qualification to continue as a sailing dinghy instructor!

Peter.

 

[Kukri]

I watched my own club’s little flotilla of Optimists take to the water for an hour or so yesterday, carefully shepherded by instructors.

Like you, whilst giving full credit to the club members who have given up the time to keep their instructors’ certificates current and their time to take part in teaching, it seems to have all got a bit removed from sailing as we understand it.

 

[DanTribe]

Agree about single handers. My kids grew up sailing Cadets and still have close friends worldwide 30 years on
Young, little kids were in demand because of their light weight and they were flattered that the older kids needed them. Older kids had to learn how to treat younger ones or they would quit. I had a conversation with an RYA coach who said that Cadets were old fashioned and we should be using Toppers and Optimists ( a single handed square rigger).

 

[Wansworth]

PascalAtkey………….West Cows high street,wooden floor and they made stoves

 

[Kukri]

PascalAtkey………….West Cows high street,wooden floor and they made stoves

Claud Worth’s chandlers! They made all the things that he invented, including his improved reefing gear.

 

[Kukri]

Agree about single handers. My kids grew up sailing Cadets and still have close friends worldwide 30 years on
Young, little kids were in demand because of their light weight and they were flattered that the older kids needed them. Older kids had to learn how to treat younger ones or they would quit. I had a conversation with an RYA coach who said that Cadets were old fashioned and we should be using Toppers and Optimists ( a single handed square rigger).

I do notice that clubs which still have Cadet fleets (example - Waldringfield SC) do much better at racing than clubs that have Optimist fleets.

 

[ex-Gladys]

I was always larger as a kid, and naturally suited to the front end of the boat. By the time I was 12/13 I was crewing Fireballs, and spent a lot of time between 1970 and 1990 at the front end of by then 505's, Hornets etc. In many of those partnerships, the helmsman focussed on sailing the boat quickly, whilst I looked after tactics etc... If you are 6'4 and 15st, the opportunities to be successful at the aft end of a dinghy are very limited!

As an RYA shore based Cruising Instructor, I have massive respect for what the scheme tries to deliver. In the same breath, I have nothing but disdain for the Dinghy Scheme...

 

[AntarcticPilot]

The Rya didnt help with its insistence of kids learning in single handed boats, they took the fun out of learning to sail, after all who wants to learn to sailwhile being shouted at by an adult in a flubber?

I too learnt to sail in a two-handed dinghy - a Heron. Started out as moveable ballast who helped mum manage the jib when (probably) around 5 years old, graduated to managing the jib alone, then helming and finally single-handing her in my early teens. Point is that I learnt to sail by increments suited to my age and strength, and learnt how the dingy would react to wind and wave in a controlled and safe environment. If I'd been turned out in an Optimist at an early age, I wouldn't have been able to handle it, and wouldn't have understood things being shouted at me by an instructor in another boat. As it was, I absorbed sail handling and boat handling gradually. The only problem is that I do too many things by instinct, so it isn't easy for me to teach others!

 

[johnalison]

I too learnt to sail in a two-handed dinghy - a Heron. Started out as moveable ballast who helped mum manage the jib when (probably) around 5 years old, graduated to managing the jib alone, then helming and finally single-handing her in my early teens. Point is that I learnt to sail by increments suited to my age and strength, and learnt how the dingy would react to wind and wave in a controlled and safe environment. If I'd been turned out in an Optimist at an early age, I wouldn't have been able to handle it, and wouldn't have understood things being shouted at me by an instructor in another boat. As it was, I absorbed sail handling and boat handling gradually. The only problem is that I do too many things by instinct, so it isn't easy for me to teach others!

I am hopeless at teaching sailing. Not only do I have my own ways of doing things but being very hands-on I find it hard to think myself into the position of the person at the helm without the tiller, or wheel, in my hand. I suppose that I learned on lugs'l dinghies on the Broads, but then moved on to Cadets at school and my father's, ie my, Firefly.

I agree that the Cadet is a great teaching aid, as well as being fun to sail, though I found it a bit tame after I acquired the Firefly. Its inherent instability gives it the advantage of, say, the Mirror. I am still uncertain about the relative merits of organised tuition vs the 'if not duffers won't drown' approaches. I would like to think that there is a place for both, though the discipline of racing is surely indispensible as the way to fine one's skills.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Hi,

I strongly agree about the mistake of teaching sailing in single handers. Firstly, the importance of good crew communication is lost and secondly the interaction between main and headsail is lost. The childrens'boats of my era were cadets a nd mirrors, both of which featured spinnakers as well.

Fortunately, my time as a RYA dinghy instructor had passed before they started insisting on single handers for beginners, although I continued in that role long enough to be a bit mystified by the need to get a level 2 power boat qualification to continue as a sailing dinghy instructor!

Peter.

My guess is that the RYA requurement for a sailing dinghy instructor to hold a PB2 is that they , RYA , expect the Instructor to be in the RIB with its 50hp OB yelling commands to the sailing dinghy learners , and rushing up and down making unnecessary wake to experience the Sailing Dinghy Learners what its like to counter the wake ; yea thanks to all who commented on this post , m uch learnt by me .

Thought that the Teign max speed limits of 6knots did not apply to Club Safety Boats , or more accurately the RYA Instructors in the Safety Boats thought that the speed limits were not for them !

I first sailed two up in Nat 12s , GP 14s , as the light weight crew up fwd on the jib , with instructions that if we grounded I was to jump overboard and push her off . Yep that Waldringfield was a good training ground , indeed .

 

[Wansworth]

Borrowed sailing club Fireball at Arun ya ht Club,bother and I were light weights(then)….Ended up down wind and down tide of harbour so rigged up a reef in the main to get back…….black looks from class capitan……I was used to an old tore out fro the late 1800 converted to Bermuda and by my Dad.

 

[Keith 66]

Generations of us grew up absorbing boat handling , sailing & seamanship by a sort of osmosis! In our club kids would go sailing with their parents, friends & fellow cadets, Friends from school could turn up & get a seat in a boat , all sorts of boats. Most crewed in many boats before getting their own.
My first experience of sailing was in dads 18ft national aged 3!

 

[Kukri]

Yes. Something has happened.

In very many places, the “waterfront” is dying.

Boatyards, chandlers, sailmakers, and, most importantly, the inshore fishing industry and its supporting businesses, are dying out.

The waterfront pubs are OK for now, but a pub on its own, with its ever expanding car park surrounded by houses, is a poor replacement for the knot of small businesses that used to provide one and all with a pathway to getting afloat, no matter how “nautical” the pub’s “decor” is.

I think most of us want to encourage, and to make welcome, anyone and everyone who thinks they might like to mess about in boats.

That must include the children (of any age from three to ninety three) of parents who don’t mess about in boats, and whose offspring therefore have to be taught by someone other than their parents.

Sailing in Britain is a pretty safe sport, considering how inherently dangerous it is, and that is because of good seamanship.

The RYA have to face both ways, keeping the Government off our backs whilst at the same time running its multitude of voluntary schemes to teach and to assess good seamanship, being thus foreman and shop steward at the same time.

The RYA do a wonderful job for us all. But just possibly this single handed dinghy thing might perhaps benefit from being looked at again?

 

[DanTribe]

I do notice that clubs which still have Cadet fleets (example - Waldringfield SC) do much better at racing than clubs that have Optimist fleets.

That may be something of a generalisation, But I started sailing in Cadets, so maybe you are right.

 

[Marmalade]

I think people wanted advice and reasonable prices - so they frequented small chandleries. Nowadays advice is sought here, on the internet - and very good advice is often to be found. So without the need for face to face advice - the purchase may also be made online - seeking the lowest price anywhere in the country.

I don't applaud nor denigrate the change - I merely note that the technology (as is so often the case) changed the world - not necessarily for the better - and those who resist change have always struggled.

 

[penfold]

I have no experience of other club's cadet arrangements but by accident or design our cadet boats are Fevas.

 

[Wansworth]

I. taught how to basically sail a small boat just before the Rya reallgot going with certificates,I recall informing some adult learners that Sailing was more a philosophy and they were quite miffed thaI wasn’t going to teach the. to sail,but at the end of the week they could anchour get off a mud bank,how to reef and have a grasp of. What they were doing on the water the details was up to them.

 

[cherod]

I'm reminded of Fyfe & McGrouther's trade counter on Kennedy Street as I first encountered it 25 years ago; badly lit, dusty, a broad hardwood counter with an inlaid brass measure so worn it was barely legible. Shelves ran off into the gloom beyond sight. The denizens behind it wore brown dustcoats and made the Sphinx seem ebullient, fasteners were dispensed by weight, small quantities in a paper poke or a cardboard box if you were a big spender, hieroglyphics inscribed on the poke telling the chief sphinx what you owed.

Yep that was the one , then they moved into the side shop and now they have gone