Chain sizes - how to measure

[EASLOOP]

I am looking for an anchor windlass with a gypsy but I do not know how to measure my existing chain. Is the link measured across it widest or across its longest dimension? or ?

As always, your knowledge is gratefully received.

 

[jwilson]

normally measured by the diameter of the 'wire' making up the link - ie 8mm chain might be typical for a 30-32 foot boat, not a bathplug chain.

Your problem if you have existing chain is that even though the chain diameter might be say 8mm or 10mm, there is no guarantee a windlass will work with it as there are differing link lengths. You get special 'calibrated chain' for windlasses so you can be confident the links will fit the gipsys, though sometimes non-calibrated chain happens to fit as well.

 

[ccscott49]

The only way to make sure your chain will fit your gipsy, is to try it on the gipsy. The chain is measured at the thickness of the rod making up the links. Claibrated has already been mentioned.

 

[EASLOOP]

Thank you for that. It does make sense being the thickness of the wire. I have an old galvanized windlass with a gypsy but was thinking of replacing it. That old gypsy must have worked with the existing chain so perhaps it is the calibrated type.

Thanks again.

 

[Guest]

Post deleted by danfoley

 

[mitchc]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a manufacturer who makes a superb range of windlasses (PM me if you need to know who) which fit both ISO and DIN chain, as well as the imperial sizes, so their units will fit your chain.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm about to replace a Simpson Lawrence windlass circa 1992, so I'd be interested in this "one size fits all" windlass. Don't really want to have to replace the chain as well.
Go on tell us, go on, go on, you know you want to....
/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I've been looking at a Masterwinch which seems to be made under licence from Lofrans....shares some parts apparently.
Any comments on these windlass?

 

[Guest]

Post deleted by danfoley

 

[mitchc]

It seems that Lofrans/Masterwinch can use metric, din or imperial chain too?....I guess 8mm ISO chain is pretty close in size to din and to 5/16 etc.
See page five for chain spec
The advice I've been given is that try it and see, you won't know if your current chain is ok until you use the new windlass..... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Best budget for new chain too!!!

 

[jeremyshaw]

Why don't you just cut a foot of chain off your existing rode and take it into a decent chandlery so you can compare with their stock?

 

[Gypsy]

I agree with Jeremy's approach take a sample of the chain. Despite much that is bandied about, there are significant practical differences between metric and "equivalent" imperial chains and/gypsies. I have a Lofrans windlass which was delivered with a 3/8" gypsy for use with 10mm chain, many. The chain was always jumping the gypsy, even when not under load. Many boaties and chandler assistants said 3/8 and 10mm were effectively the same - not so as I finally discovered. I did not know the cause of the mismatch at the time so I took the gypsy off and tried it with different chain at a chandler. Bingo, the 3/8" chain fitted snuggly but the 10mm links were slightly too long so did not sit correctly on the shoulders of the gypsy. Solution - I was able to buy a 10mm gypsy for the Lofrans on the spot and I have not had a problem since even though I have purchased new standard 10mm chain twice, not having to consider calibrated chain.
So if you want to keep the chain, follow Jeremy's suggestion to ensure you get a good match to the gypsy when you buy with the windlass.
Ray

 

[skenn_ie]

Some people will also have the problem that I have... the chain, when old n rusty, will not be the same thickness as original. I am surprised that chain isn't measured by pitch rather than bar diameter. The chain I have is 5/8". and 2.5" pitch. Being litterally admiralty(ex navy), I KNOW it's imperial size. The question is, as I want to get a powered winch sometime soon, should I get imperial chain, and hope to find an electric imperial winch, or are gypsies readily available to retrofit to a metric winch. I do have access to people with lathes etc.

 

[GMac]

To measure chain - There is 2 important measurements and they work in conjunction with each other, you need to know both for gypsy sizing.
1, The size of the wire bent to make the link i.e a 8mm chain is made from bent 8mm wire.
2, the Pitch measurement. This is basically the internal length of each link. Technically it's measured slightly differantly but you get the same number. DIN766/A 8mm for example is 24mm +2.5/-0.5mm per 11 links tollerance.

Standards,
ISO is not a standard even though one or 2 winch manufacturers have recently decided it is. ISO is the crowd who runs all the standards, ISO stands for International Standards Organisation. The ISO Lewmar and Quick refer too is actually the EN818-3 standard.

NO good chainmaker ships un-calibrated short link chain. 'Un-calibrated' is code for chinese made. There is differing levels of calibration but all good chain is calibrated to some degree. As noted above 8mm DIN766/A is the most highly calibrated. EN818-3 8mm has a tollerance of +/-0.6mm per link. Winch makers HATE people using uncalibrated chain due to jumping and wear issues. This item is more important these days with the massive differances in qualities available, even if 'sold' as DIN for example.

To size a chain to a gypsy -

1, If you have good acurate measurements of the chain just tell the winch guy and any worth their salt will know the gypsy to fit. DON"T measure old worn out chain, you'll just get strange measurements. Try the end at the boat with less wear but you may have to scrap the crust off, when you get there you'll know what I mean by crust.

2, If you know the standard the chain was built to i.e DIN766/A, EN, BBB, US HT and so on just tell the winch guy, he should know from there.

3, Take/send a bit and try it for size.

4, Get the winch then the chain to match that.

Notes: Most 8mm's are pretty much the same (US made excluded) size so they are not a worry. 10mm or 3/8" is though. There is some big size differances between the standards so be careful with 10mm and bigger.

Some might think, if they read specs, that the, for example, the 2mm pitch differance between DIN766/A and EN818-3 is not a biggy - IT IS. It is very important to get the correct gypsy as GYPSY above found out, that looks like a classic 'a 10mm is a 10mm' issue. As he said he found out it isn't. Fitting the wrong, say, 10mm means extra wear, slippage, jambing and other nasty stuff.

Spend the time to match your chain to your gypsy and you'll be a lot happier and safer.

Masterwinch is Lofrans 'economy' range, they share a lot of common components. The Lorfans badged have the trick bits though like the multi-speed motors, non-ally castings and so on. Masterwinch are a good winch but basic.

Quick are goodies as well. Care must be taken when setting up a Auto rope to cahin one though. They are still a bit fussy but great if set-up well.

Maxwell and Lofrans - top end.

Lewmar - good but lower powered and one or 2 models are suffering watertight issues still I was told just yesterday.

Anchorlift - good but basic.

Muir - good with fruit. Not our 1st pick if wanting a Auto Rope to Chain.

Thats enough, have a great weekend all.

 

[GMac]

[ QUOTE ]
Some people will also have the problem that I have... the chain, when old n rusty, will not be the same thickness as original. I am surprised that chain isn't measured by pitch rather than bar diameter. The chain I have is 5/8". and 2.5" pitch. Being litterally admiralty(ex navy), I KNOW it's imperial size. The question is, as I want to get a powered winch sometime soon, should I get imperial chain, and hope to find an electric imperial winch, or are gypsies readily available to retrofit to a metric winch. I do have access to people with lathes etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd better be quick if you want new imperial chain if outside the US, it's going the way of the Dodo.
Many old imperial standards have been incorperated into new metric standards. The EN818-3 standard is based of old imperial.

Most winch manufacturers will have gypsies to suit most chains in use currently. BUT many are rationalising their range to the new (and less in number standards) so they will also fade away.

If you're buying new go metric. Much easier to replace many years down the track.

 

[ammyj]

if you have a lewmar gypsy fitted it will be stamped with a number EG 002 if you call them they will be able to say what chain its suitable for. If you dont have a windlass fitted measure the pitch and a single link length and again i sure if you call them they will be able to match you up or and tell you which chain you have both size and calibration.....