Central Heating

Here's a recent thread with a link to another one. Personally I don't think blown air type are that well suited to liveaboard, I had one (Eber D2) and it didn't like being run on low for extended periods through UK winter. However if you don't mind getting to grips with stripping/decoking could be OK, though spares for Ebers are comedy prices, not sure about other makes. I'd have drip fed diesel, you already carry the fuel & quiet, no leccy requied, maybe not so suitable if you have a bigger boat though...
 
if you have the room for the radiators (and thats a difficult thing usually unless they're designed in from the start), then the kabola is unbeatable. webasto is good too but heats water via a calorifier rather than the 'combi-boiler' style kabola.

do your heat sums carefully though.
 
Eberspacher also do a diesel combi-boiler - the best installation I've ever come across was one of these coupled up to blower radiators self-installed by a Swedish Lloyds surveyor.
He'd learnt what not to do on his father's self-installed system.
Blower-type hot-air heating is OK for occasional use, for those with little miserliness, but electric fan-heaters are far more practical, simpler and more economic in my experience; providing you have shore power.
 
I installed a Webasto ThermoTop and initially fitted numerous small car type cabin heat exchangers with twin 12v fans to blow air though them. The radiators were small enough to fit anywhere, and I had 6 of them through the boat. The problem was that they were only any good when the heater was running, which was not the way it was designed. I converted to normal domestic style rads (in the main) and haven't looked back. Finding space for them was the only tricky bit. Running pipework was relatively straigh forward with modern plasitc heating pipes and JG Speedfit fittings. Much easier to find space for these than a blown air system.
 
We spend a lot of time in Holland where many boats typically have Kabola combi boiler systems. OK it's Dutch,but,the many people we have met who have it,all love it,no matter what the age or size of boat. It does seem to be fitted generally to the current high end multi million euro stuff where one presumes that only the best will do,btw.Typically,these also tend to combine underfloor heating in all or part of their boats. We are also told that Kabola have a reputation for being very helpful both at the front end engineering of the system as well as with after sales. Incidentally,as we are currently thinking of changing our boat we hope to change from our very limited Eberspacher to a proper system such as Kabola.
 
Hi if twer me & starting from scratch I would use a gas powered boiler! It burns a lot cleaner? How often does the boiler at home need decokeing?.having said that I have eberpacher & if looked after is a very good system especially if run on parafin regards mm1
 
pyrojames said:
I installed a Webasto ThermoTop and initially fitted numerous small car type cabin heat exchangers with twin 12v fans to blow air though them. The radiators were small enough to fit anywhere, and I had 6 of them through the boat. The problem was that they were only any good when the heater was running, which was not the way it was designed. I converted to normal domestic style rads (in the main) and haven't looked back. Finding space for them was the only tricky bit. Running pipework was relatively straigh forward with modern plasitc heating pipes and JG Speedfit fittings. Much easier to find space for these than a blown air system.
Click to expand...

Ditto- our previous boat, a three cabin Gibsea 96 was fitted with Webasto Thermo-top, two small heated towel rails, one on the end of the galley and one in the heads plus a long slim radiator at ankle to knee hight along the settee berth. Worked a treat, only drawback was that as we used an aft cabin we could hear the pump and the unit while sleeping (or trying to). Provided hot water within 20 minutes, and was a nice dry heat all round.
 
Smallest webasto and eber hydronic boilers both have noisy solenoids on fuel pump so locate the boiler away from sleeping area. Tried them both.

Bigger Webasto hydronic boiler caused my mother to ask if we had left the genny running when she tried to sleep in cabin near the boiler!

Al hydronic systems are excellent for installation because pipes are easier to run than larger air tubes. And radiators can be fitted which seem to fill boat space with warm air more completely than blown air. However, we also have some fan matrices and they are noisy and not very effective.

And boiler location is crucial because they do make noise.

Cheers

Garold
 
I have the Mikuni MX60 water heater, which feeds all my fan heater matrices, my heated towel rail, and the hot water calorifier. The click of the pump is an acceptable nise level, but full speed on the heat takes a bit of getting used to in the cabin (not mine - a guest cabin!!!)
 
Where do you guys mount the diesel heater itself then - cockpit locker away from berths or in the engine bay?

Currently considering Mikuni MX40 hydronic to calorifier, towel rail in heads (yes!) and either matrix heaters or radiators (if I can figure out where they could go)
 
Saguday said:
Where do you guys mount the diesel heater itself then - cockpit locker away from berths or in the engine bay?

Currently considering Mikuni MX40 hydronic to calorifier, towel rail in heads (yes!) and either matrix heaters or radiators (if I can figure out where they could go)
Click to expand...

From my own experience so please ask lots of others too.........

We have located hydronic boilers in engine room on catamarans. Make sure that it isn't in the owners hull engine room. We have tried to surround our latest Webasto one in sound insulation too but it makes very little difference. When you are asleep it sounds quite loud.

Our Webasto hot air boiler (we currently have two systems on board) is in a front locker and this is ok because it is away from sleeping cabins.

My own opinion is that a radiator is better than a fan matrix because it will run silently at night. And use nomelectric. Though you have to find the space i find it preferable to have rads if you can do it. And cheaper. We have two in our owners cabin and at night they are excellent and silent. We rarely use the fan matrices.

Best bet is definitely to have several sources of heat so that one can use the best source depending on need and location eg if attached to shore power, we use electric blower and small oil filled rad. If remote, we use oil fired systems. And in the middle of winter we use everything including the electric blanket and thick jumpers!

As I said, just my experiences.

Cheers

Garold
 
Thanks. The reason I ask is that there is plenty of space in the engine compartment but I'm concerned about noise as it's close to the aft cabin where the kids sleep - although, now I think about it, they sleep all the way through overnight passages under power so this may not be a real issue :rolleyes:

There is less space in the cockpit lockers and anyway I'm not sure I want a diesel heater next to all the electrics which are in there.

We do have a 16k btu reverse cycle air conditioner for shore use plus a couple of oil-filled rads and a 2kW fan heater for emergencies/absences :)

I take your point about the rads being quiet and not taking any power, that is attractive if you're on the hook - they're also a lot cheaper than a blown air matrix heater.
 
Hi Everyone,

This info has all be so useful, and mates with info I've garnered form other sources. In summary,

A hydronic system is the major preference (a system that pumps hot water around a netwok of piping, feeding radiators and heating matricies).

Modern matrices have virtually silent fans gently to blow air through them into areas to be warmed where radiators aren't able to be placed.

In the main, two manufacturers are recommended. Webasto and Kabola. Looking at their products, the former requires less real estate.

A point here is that a purely blown air system can be a nuisance since it dries the eyes, is noisy, and can induce tiredness.

Other points to remember are,

Ensure the exhaust is as quiet as poss so not to annoy other boaters quite apart from yourselves, especially if to operate overnight.

It's a really good idea to have hoses fed around cupboards, drawers assemblies, lazarette, bilge and engine room to keep them warm and dry.

Think if you want it to heat your hot water supply as well.

Size the heater accurately to ensure the furnace operates well (to prevent sooting up) and have it serviced annually.

Make sure there are sufficient valves in the piping to enable isolation for draining and bleeding.

Check the fuel pump. Some make a ticking noise. If so, think carefully of where it's placed to minimise annoying noise.

Think of heating zones and control them separately.

My next step is to check what it would cost to install a Webasto on Play d'eau....

Piers
 
Piers said:
Hi Everyone,

This info has all be so useful, and mates with info I've garnered form other sources. In summary,

A hydronic system is the major preference (a system that pumps hot water around a netwok of piping, feeding radiators and heating matricies).

Modern matrices have virtually silent fans gently to blow air through them into areas to be warmed where radiators aren't able to be placed.

In the main, two manufacturers are recommended. Webasto and Kabola. Looking at their products, the former requires less real estate.

A point here is that a purely blown air system can be a nuisance since it dries the eyes, is noisy, and can induce tiredness.

Other points to remember are,

Ensure the exhaust is as quiet as poss so not to annoy other boaters quite apart from yourselves, especially if to operate overnight.

It's a really good idea to have hoses fed around cupboards, drawers assemblies, lazarette, bilge and engine room to keep them warm and dry.

Think if you want it to heat your hot water supply as well.

Size the heater accurately to ensure the furnace operates well (to prevent sooting up) and have it serviced annually.

Make sure there are sufficient valves in the piping to enable isolation for draining and bleeding.

Check the fuel pump. Some make a ticking noise. If so, think carefully of where it's placed to minimise annoying noise.

Think of heating zones and control them separately.

My next step is to check what it would cost to install a Webasto on Play d'eau....

Piers
Click to expand...

Try Toby at Keto. 07976 925166. For Webasto on south coast. He has perseverance even when problems emmanate from failings in the manufacturers kit.

Cheers

Garold

Ps. Try to listen to a boiler and a fan matrix running before you make a final decision. You may be surprised at different people's definition of 'silent running'.
 
Garold said:
Try Toby at Keto. 07976 925166. For Webasto on south coast. He has perseverance even when problems emmanate from failings in the manufacturers kit.

Cheers

Garold

Ps. Try to listen to a boiler and a fan matrix running before you make a final decision. You may be surprised at different people's definition of 'silent running'.
Click to expand...

Thanks Garold. I've contacted Toby and we are arranging a visit.

Piers
 
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