censured over seagulls - I am honoured

[dylanwinter]

following a short sentence in my last little bit in PBO about outboards I have had a long email from John, the wonderful man who runs Save Old Seagulls

http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/faq/faq.htm

here is an extract from his email

"The Seagull in your film looks as if it is in desperate need of a lot of TLC. It does not do you a favour as the owner, quite the reverse. I always feel a boat and it’s gear is a reflection of the owner….. Caring owners have spoken to me about your sad Seagull.

I wonder if it had been ever converted to 25:1, it should have been, as it seems to have a wipac ignition. That would reduce the smoke. Getting the mix spot on helps too. Has it by chance a nice Black Bakelite spark plug cover? If so I can tell you that was discontinued 33 years ago! Would improve the ignition.. Seagull recommended replacing the HT lead and cap every year….. listening to the revs fluctuating I wonder when the carb was last cleaned out, as it sounded very much like partially blocked jets. If you feed a modern motor dirty fuel, it will just stop….

To say the oil residue you left when starting was bad, is sadly a reflection on you. For a start you should be using Bio degradable 2T oil, that leaves no lasting residue, turning to compost in 3 weeks! A caring owner would simply catch the drips with a small can, not allow them to drop into the water anyway! Inside the cover of many modern outboards are such drip trays… also you only ever flood a Seagull when it is cold…

When you swap your Seagull for the 4 stroke, it will still leave the same petrol fumes in the water. But if given the same attention as this sad Seagull seems to have had, I suspect you will soon trading it in for another inside 4 years. Having heard your comments regarding having to leave it in the water all the time, I suspect you will find corrosion problems in a very short time, modern outboards do not appreciate being in the water, except when used."


the whole of the email is on my blog

of course the man is dead right on most counts

and here is the offending behaviour



Dylan

 

[sailorman]

Tell him to wind his neck in, blimmin cheek of it
he might have offered to service it foc

 

[dylanwinter]

naaa

Tell him to wind his neck in, blimmin cheek of it
he might have offered to service it foc

I think it is a good email

and I was very pleased to get it

and it puts the case in favour of seagulls as well as anyone I have come across

of course I think he is wrong on a few points

I have never seen anyone use a drip catcher when flooding the carb - I am not saying no-one does it - but I personally have never seen a seagull user catch the drips

the point about the energy involved in making the seagull and the new engine is true(ish) - except we now live in a world where old seagulls will get re-cycled

for me it is about point pollution and taking seagulls up creeks and into envieonmentally sensitive salt marshes

I have always understood that a two stroke throws more crud into the water than a four stroke

my wheelie bin experiemnts would suggest that is true

mind you.... maybe I have never run a perfectly set-up Seagull

Dylan

 

[skyflyer]

"all the seagull people are going to hate me now" - you left yourself wide open!

 

[dylanwinter]

true

"all the seagull people are going to hate me now" - you left yourself wide open!

it does not mean I am necessarily wrong

and it does seem to me that sailing hacks with opinions on anything at all are a bit thin on the ground

mind you... when I am sitting on the boat and I hear the sound of a seagull come puttering around a corner - diligently shoving an old wooden clinker built dinghy along and with a hairy bloke on the tiller and leaving a trail of blended blue smoke and St Bruno in his wake....

well my spirits rise a little

but I am also sad about the oil being chucked in the water as well

but such a thing is a visual and acoustic treat

and every time I go into the garage and see my old Seagull sitting on the shelf I remember the good times when I did not give the odd oil drip a moments thought

 

[Tranona]

John is only following the Seagull tradition. When I was sorting out the archives in my days at Seagull looking for material to use in publicity I found a lot of old correspondence from the original owner John Wayhope. One little gem was a letter to an unhappy customer along the lines of

Dear XXX

Thank you for your letter concerning your Seagull 40 Plus. It is clear that you do not appreciate the engine. Please find enclosed my cheque for £37/10s. Please return the engine at your convenience.

Yours etc

True customer relations!

 

[lw395]

The quantity of oil a Seagull outboard puts into the water is pretty small.
Compared to what runs off the roads.
Or from refuelling stink boats, or ships, or bilge water from many yachts.
Or even from smoky yacht exhausts.

Have you ever cooked a goose? Those things must release tons of oil into the environment when they keel over!

 

[dylanwinter]

very good - I do the same thing

John is only following the Seagull tradition. When I was sorting out the archives in my days at Seagull looking for material to use in publicity I found a lot of old correspondence from the original owner John Wayhope. One little gem was a letter to an unhappy customer along the lines of

Dear XXX

Thank you for your letter concerning your Seagull 40 Plus. It is clear that you do not appreciate the engine. Please find enclosed my cheque for £37/10s. Please return the engine at your convenience.

Yours etc

True customer relations!

I do something similar with KTL

sometimes people find the technology of the website too hard to manage

or

their old laptop is so venerable it cannot cope with the videos

so after about five or ten emails I offer to refund the money

as for the DVDs _ send them out and I ask people not to pay until they are perfectly happy with the disk

sometimes people complain a bit - a classic is that the dvd is working fine in their telly but not in their laptop or the other way around

I tell them to just bin it

no idea if they actually do bin it

D

 

[macd]

Have you ever cooked a goose?

Are you asking whether Dylan thinks his goose is cooked? As far as Mr Seagull-saver is concerned, I think it is.

 

[oldvarnish]

I'd forgotten how beautiful they were - in an elemental sense. True works of artful engineering with no compromise between appearance and functionality.

If James Dyson invented it today, it would be declared a masterpiece.

The challenge, now, is for someone to grasp its basic, simple principles and design something as light and convenient that actually works every time and can be made for a rock bottom price.

They would fly off the shelves.

The world NEEDS a totally new concept in outboards.

 

[sailorman]

I'd forgotten how beautiful they were - in an elemental sense. True works of artful engineering whith no compromise between appearance and functionality.

If James Dyson invented it today, it would be declared a masterpiece.

The challenge, now, is for someone to grasp its basic, simple principles and design something as light and convenient that actually works every time and can be made for a rock bottom price.

They would fly off the shelves.

1 drawback
2T
the treehuggers dont like it up em

 

[yellowspinnaker]

If James Dyson invented it today it would be made of plastic too weak to withstand daily use by a woman, and it would be a triumph of form over function rather than the other way round.

It would be made in garish colours and outlandish shapes.

And it wouldn't be made in Britain.

 

[Lakesailor]

I am too weak to withstand daily use by a woman

 

[Tranona]

I am too weak to withstand daily use by a woman

Maybe you need to buy another Seagull to build up your strength - at least in your right arm!

 

[yellowspinnaker]

I find that right arm strength is best maintained by exercises at the bar. The Longe bar of my local, that is.

 

[rob2]

I am too weak to withstand daily use by a woman

Maybe, but I'd be willing to put it to the test!

Rob.

 

[Searush]

I'd forgotten how beautiful they were - in an elemental sense. True works of artful engineering with no compromise between appearance and functionality.

If James Dyson invented it today, it would be declared a masterpiece.

The challenge, now, is for someone to grasp its basic, simple principles and design something as light and convenient that actually works every time and can be made for a rock bottom price.

They would fly off the shelves.

The world NEEDS a totally new concept in outboards.

You missed the point in the first post.

IF properly maintained & set up, Seagulls run beautifully for years & years (& decades). In fact, even when seriously abused they still go on for years & years, but are perhaps a little harder to start, produce blue clouds & drip mineral oil in the sea.

As to price, you will seldom find a cheaper working OB than a Seagull, anywhere. I bought mine because the parts for the 10 year old knackered SuziQ were promised to arrive the season after I ordered them. Buying a Seagull was a short-term, low cost expediant, however I actually prefer it to the repaired Suzy.

Nevertheless, I still prefer rowing to either O/B. There is much to be said for silent transport & good exercise in the fresh air.

BTW, it's perfectly possible to start a Seagull without overflooding the carb. If 5 "tickles" produce the drips, just do 3 or 4 & maybe give it 2 pulls instead of one. And, as John states, you only ever need to flood it when starting from stone cold.

 

[Heckler]

I'd forgotten how beautiful they were - in an elemental sense. True works of artful engineering with no compromise between appearance and functionality.

If James Dyson invented it today, it would be declared a masterpiece.

The challenge, now, is for someone to grasp its basic, simple principles and design something as light and convenient that actually works every time and can be made for a rock bottom price.

They would fly off the shelves.

The world NEEDS a totally new concept in outboards.

my old yam 2hp was exactly what a seagull should be!
Stu

 

[stuhaynes]

Bought one brand new in the 70's. Nightmare, I got rid of it after it tried to sink us on the Broads. (Honestly it's not worth telling the tale. Except to say, 'no thank you!')

 

[dylanwinter]

I love seagulls

there is so much to love about seagull

simplicity, longevity and reliability combined with a quirky architecture

they hide nothing about themselves and are honest little engines

they are not efficient and consume fuel with some exuberance

and if used for getting from the shore to the dinghy they are only short trips so not very polluting.... apparently



but.......

despite the shortness of the trips in the dinghy many of those short trips are made in estuaries or rivers where we keep our boats, where we go to enjoy the peace and the wildlife

and a two stroke pisses more **** into the water than a four stroke

and I think that to knowingly use something that is more polluting than the modern equivalent used in those fragile environments is something we should think very carefully about


sure there are bigger sources of pollution - sloppy handling of diesel by sailors, moboists and fishermen,for instance.

but I think that the world will be a slightly cleaner place once all the old two strokes wear out

at the moment it looks as though seagulls will be with us for many decades to come