"[censored]" - What is it?

[Guest]

\"[censored]\" - What is it?

I keep hearing that "[censored]" is a word which you can insert in a message and then the thread gets deleted. Is this a flaw in the system, like a secret hack which the forum software understands as a sort of DELETE command.

This really should get fixed pronto.

 

[kimhollamby]

Re: \"[censored]\" - What is it?

Negative. As I suspect you know [censored] is a word that appears when you use a word on our banned words list. There aren't too many of them, most of them are of the four letter very unpleasant variety, a few of them fall could leave us with a legal problem.

In the case of the one you have been playing with, I would hasten to add we have received no legal threat but for the good of this forum and those posting on it we have no particular desire to run the risk either. Hope you understand.

Associate Publisher ybw.com websites kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[bedouin]

Re: \"[censored]\" - What is it?

Totally agree with you there Kim, but it isn't half tempting to have a play and see what the censor will let through

 

[Guest]

Re: \"S**sail

I wonder if one of the yottimags, perhpas YW with their worldwide aspirations, might examine whether the yachting population as a whole benefit from what we call Industrial yachting.
I gather that several members of various mags' staffs (or should that be staves)have had vacations with the nautical pleasure factories. They would therefore be the ideal people to give an unvarnished view.

William Cooper

 

[steve_cronin]

With the amount of advertising space they buy....

... I wouldn't expect your publication to ever get involved in trying to resist what that company's commercial saturation is doing to others' enjoyment of the sailing waters of the south of England.

A free forum and commercial interests cannot co-exist!

My mistake.

Thank you for reminding us of the true nature of this forum and where it stands.

Steve Cronin

 

[claymore]

Re: \"[censored]\" - What is it?

So with tcm it might be four letter words like work?

 

[kimhollamby]

Rules of the game

And strangely enough, I understand that too

Associate Publisher ybw.com websites kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[kimhollamby]

Perhaps I was too subtle?

Steve, you miss my point entirely.

Please point out to me where we have removed criticism of Sunsail and I'll eat my post. Search on Sunsail and you'll see what I mean.

In this case we are talking about a word that can be taken as straightforward slander of the company and of their customers (some of whom use this forum). I'd left it alone for a while but of my own volition decided to remove it last week on the basis that I cannot see any defence that I could offer for leaving the term lying around 'should' (and I use that word carefully) someone later take offence and decide we were an easy meal ticket. No-one is putting pressure on us, no-one has contacted us, it was my decision after reading a sudden string of new appearances. You won't believe me I suspect but it is the truth.

If you think that Sunsail pose a threat, or have personally given you cause for a gripe, there is every opportunity here to sound off about that as long as you stick within the law. That's fair, isn't it?

Associate Publisher ybw.com websites kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[steve_cronin]

The very fact that...

... there have been "a sudden string of new appearances" surely itself tells you that we your readers have a very real concern about the activities of this company and the detriment that they and their casual clients are having to facilities, VHF channels, vessel topsides and the general peace in moorings.

What do we see you doing about it? You openly complain about "PWC's" and others behaving in an anti-social manner but there is one topic conspicuous by it's absence in your editorial and I don't have to detail which it is.

Why do you think the term Sc....il was coined? Out of malice by a competitor? Out of jealousy for the commercial sucess of a company with a similar name?

NO Mr Hollamby, out of pure frustration and contempt of the actions detailed above.

How much is the loyalty of your readers worth? In terms of advertising space and discounted (or free) staff charters?

Steve Cronin

 

[kimhollamby]

Re: The very fact that...

Steve,

Have you raised this with the editors of the magazines that you read? I'm not being flippant here, genuine question.

With regard to this forum I still emphasise that you are afforded every opportunity to voice your concerns. My job here is to ensure that the content remains the right side of the legal firewall, otherwise you and all others will lose this opportunity to air those views. You can criticise very effectively without using a word that a 70-year-old judge and 12 jurors would quite comfortably land upon as yet another example of unscrupulous behaviour by the media.

If I am allowed to step out of role now and speak purely from a personal point of view, I have no particular axe to grind with Sunsail, neither do I owe them any favours. I haven't personally sampled one of their holidays...there are those on the magazine teams that have but then how are they expected to report on an important part of their coverage and reader interest (ie charter) if they don't? There's not one journalist here I know of who relies on Sunsail for their boating and, whilst a holiday in the sun can be a very pleasant way to earn a living, my own experience of charter reporting is that you tend to try and stuff in about 10 days cruising into six or less to do the exercise justice.

For several years now I've kept a boat at Port Solent and so am aware of the times when one might naturally come into conflict with a fleet of 50 returning. But on the flip side I have also worked with some of the Sunsail team in activities designed to encourage newcomers into boating and I think it a good idea that operations of the nature of Sunsail are available to enable this for people.

There is no doubt that the world of corporate (corpulent) hospitality (hostility) probably has done little for charter/private owner relations at different times. However, the website team here are pleased to support the activities of the National Schools Sailing Association when they use the Sunsail fleet for their annual regatta (just to stop the antenna's twitching, we owe Sunsail nothing for that connection). Perhaps the youngsters might prove to be an annoyance too, but where do we draw the line...is boating to become the exclusive preserve of the relative (not necessarily privileged) few?

Having Sunsail voices appear on the VHF in the Solent at regular intervals is a minor annoyance, but nothing like the depair I get driven to when listening to dozens of inane calls from private owners asking an already busy Coastguard for radio checks.

Perhaps Sunsail might even stand charged of playing a part in the fall from grace of much of the British yacht industry by bringing in such a high volume of French yachts over the years. But I suspect there were conversations many moons ago where British builders were given their chance.

So for me it's checks and balances. A bit like the forum really, when it's at its best.

Associate Publisher ybw.com websites kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[bedouin]

Re: Talking of censorship

Talking of censoring. A well known recruitment web site once instituted a 'profanity checker'. It rapidly came to the conclusion that no one should be allowed to work in Scunthorpe.

Seems reasonable to me.

 

[Trilogy]

Re: The very fact that...

I value this forum as a medium for learning and a source of entertainment. Factual information and considered opinion are valuable. Nothing turns me off more than peoples need to resort to abuse of individuals and groups.

As an ex-Sunsail flotilla skipper, ex-auxilliary coastguard and now a yacht owner based in the Solent, I feel I have an reasonably informed view.

I was lucky enough to have the Editor of Yachting World join my fleet in Greece to report on a 'Beginners' flotilla holiday. I have to agree with Kim, that he did work hard throughout his week's 'holiday'- yes it was free. I admired his patience for sitting through my 2.5 hour long safety breifing and for attending every one of my morning get togethers. He sailed twice as far as anyone else to get photos of all the harbours and anchorages in the area and always participated in the group activities. The article that appeared in the magazine a few months later clearly demonstrated that he had done significant research throughout his week in the Ionian.

On the point about Sunsail & the vhf, I think the problem is only audible because of the size of their fleet. Perhaps it was foolish of Sunsail to number all of their yachts. If they'd stuck to giving them all individual names, you probably wouldn't notice them at all. I certainly get more frustrated by the seemingly more experienced yachties who incessantly call their chum who clearly isn't listening.

Personally, I believe Sunsail offers a great experience for both novice and experienced yachties. I have chartered from them on 8 occaisions, 3 times in Greece and the rest from Port Solent. I have never had a problem with their service. When I was an employee, I was never aware of a time when the company didn't do all that it could to ensure customers needs and expectations were met. I'm sure there are those that have had problems, and I know a few of my customers weren't happy, but in the main they never gave us a chance to fix things because they never told us until they were going home. Nowadays I take great pleasure in seeing a yachtful of Sunsailers knowing that it's more than likely that another new recruit is enjoying this wonderful hobby of ours. I will go out of my way to assist and afford them the courtesy and patience that attracted me to the yachting fraternity many years ago.

And for the record, I now have no affiliation with Sunsail. I did receive a 10 % discount on holidays for the 2 years after I left but nothing since.

Nick

 

[Mirelle]

Industrial Yachting

That is a very good idea.

 

[vyv_cox]

Sunsail, industrial yachting, etc.

My son worked for Sunsail for something like seven years, as engineer and skipper. During this time he learnt a great deal about boats and the things that go wrong with them. He is one of the most competent yachtsmen I know. He also met hundreds of other skippers and engineers, for whom Sunsail was an excellent training ground.

Now running his own business in Mallorca, he works with professional skippers and engineers of all types of vessel, from small yachts to very large motor yachts. Very many of these people began their careers and learnt their trade with Sunsail. So regardless of what Sunsail may provide for future participants of yachting, it has most definitely contributed a wealth of experience that shores up the industry.

 

[tcm]

Re: Oi!

Not sure if you were around at the time, but to start with on this new BB, an automatic naughty word routine swished thru every post. They canned it after much protesting from me and extensive research by hlb, who found that the word Scunthorpe was on the list. Anyway, no time to talk to you, I'd better get back to some [censored].

 

[steve_cronin]

You havn\'t addressed my point....

...the high volume of complaints about [ ] isn't of my making. When you hear long standing experienced yachtsmen referring to ch16 as "Radio [ ]" because their casual customers are discussing which pub to use or calling for "[ ] Rib" to recover Sharon's sunglasses, or the sound of stemhead crunching into Walcon pontoon as "The [ ] Kiss (of death)" don't you think that there might be something for good investigative journalists to look at?

There are a few posted here who say that this particular company is a good one to work for and I cannot doubt that but just go and see which member of staff is the busiest at [a certain marina] and you will be able to recognise him as the one with the white powder all over his hands from grinding gelcoat. The only anecdote I personally have heard was the concern expressed by one father of a seventeen year old who's son was put in charge of a weekend cruise boat by a charter company.

As to freebies, why doesn't your company (all titles) do what the CA do for "Which" reports? That is buy on the open market at market prices?

Finally,

if a company gains a nickname then isn't it is often as a result of the experience of the general public?

I appreciate what you are say about your personal position as "webmaster" (or wyw) but like all front row troops you have to be prepared to take the flak. Remember i didn't criticise any company as such, what I was doing was replying to a posting about the costs of ownership using a term that is widely accepted in Solent sailing circles as a euphemism for the "try it once as yet another quick-bite experience" tribe and their commercial exploiters that are an ever increasing part of the yachting scene.

Steve Cronin

 

[bedouin]

Re: Maybe a one off..

The worst example of CH16 abuse was last summer when a [censored] boat put out a Mayday - Man overboard in Christchurch bay.

The coastguard tried to contact them, but they didn't answer, so the CG broadcast a Pan. A couple of hours later the Pan was cancelled - it turned out that said [censored] boat had been doing a man overboard exercise.

Drat - Kim has now censored that one as well. The company of course is Scumsoil

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by bedouin on Wed Feb 6 13:02:38 2002 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[kimhollamby]

I think I have but here\'s another go

Question: ****...the high volume of complaints about [ ] isn't of my making. When you hear long standing experienced yachtsmen referring to ch16 as "Radio [ ]" because their casual customers are discussing which pub to use or calling for "[ ] Rib" to recover Sharon's sunglasses, or the sound of stemhead crunching into Walcon pontoon as "The [ ] Kiss (of death)" don't you think that there might be something for good investigative journalists to look at?****

Answer: never said you were responsible for the complains. But your statement opens up a can of worms, does it not? Good investigative journalists would also then need to show a balanced view (legally and morally) by investigating all abuses of Ch16 (there are many more in the Solent that have nothing to do with Sunsail), all cases where someone drops ones' keys in the drink and all cases of skippers crunching their boats on pontoons. Not sure all targets would enjoy the heat of that, even if we had the time and resources to go charging around trying to catch every incident. Yes, I'm sure the incident rate amongst charter vessels is higher but is Sunsail's record any worse, or are they more noticeable because they have a lot more boats in their fleets, at least in the UK?

Question: ****There are a few posted here who say that this particular company is a good one to work for and I cannot doubt that but just go and see which member of staff is the busiest at [a certain marina] and you will be able to recognise him as the one with the white powder all over his hands from grinding gelcoat. The only anecdote I personally have heard was the concern expressed by one father of a seventeen year old who's son was put in charge of a weekend cruise boat by a charter company.****

Answer: is the allegation here that damage caused by charter boats to private boat owners or marina operators is not being recompensed? Or that unqualified skippers are being used by unnamed charter companies? If so, then clearly both are serious but would have to be investigated properly, not just aired as anecdote. Yes, I'm sure we would be interested in hard evidence of either.

Question: **** As to freebies, why doesn't your company (all titles) do what the CA do for "Which" reports? That is buy on the open market at market prices? ****

Answer: because there are not enough boatowners to pay CA subscription rates for one. I wish there were. Secondly, I'm not entirely sure that 'Which' reports ever escape the trap of subjective judgement...they have certainly reached findings about certain things that I for one didn't agree with. Your term 'freebie' implies leaving one's brain behind when one packs the luggage to go - a bit of a sweeping accusation that will borders on the molar gnashing at our end.

Question: **** if a company gains a nickname then isn't it is often as a result of the experience of the general public? ****

Answer: the circle is squared in this fascinating debate. Criticism is at its most effective when objective and without malice. The term we are talking about fulfils neither requirement and so it ultimately does us no favours if you are seeking to raise issues about any particular company.

There may be folksy terms that emerge to describe all manner of things, commercial and otherwise, but you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone to publish them, because it is then the publication and not the users that take full responsibility for its use. In saying that I'm not waving the white flag - I am in fact prepared to handle as much flak as is capable of being thrown around here, no personal offence is taken and if I gave any impression to the contrary then apologies. But I cannot offer the fact that a malicious term is used around the pontoon parties and VHF channels of the Solent by an indeterminate number of boatowners as a defence of slander if such a need should ever arise.




Associate Publisher ybw.com websites kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[Guest]

Legal nitpicking

Kim's comment: "But I cannot offer the fact that a malicious term is used around the pontoon parties and VHF channels of the Solent by an indeterminate number of boatowners as a defence of slander if such a need should ever arise."

Kim - surely you would be sued for libel, not slander, as you would be deemed to have published the offending item (on the web). Same rules as for newspapers and broadcasters. Slander is verbal, it's libel if it exists in a published/permanent form.

Unless I've overlooked something pretty major, that is, and I don't think I have. This is a pretty basic difference and no personal criticism here, but certainly one a webmaster who talks so much about his legal position should be up on.

There is no doubt that the whole business of web publishing in general, and bulletin boards in particular is a legal minefield and you have my heartfelt sympathy at having to administer it.

 

[bedouin]

Re: English nitpicking

Dear Fruitbat,

Most Libel is verbal too.

I believe there has been a case of someone claiming that a cartoon was libel, but it is usually the words they are complaining about

I don't normally go in for this sort of pedantry - but you started it!

Actually it is not absolutely certain whether it would be 'Slander' or 'Libel' as the distinction between the two predates the web. Most authorities think that the courts would be likely to class it as libel - but there has not been a test case yet.

Note also that libel can be oral in the case of TV/Radio broadcast.

As things are at present it is highly unlikely that YBW could be successfully sued for anything said on this BB - unless they had been asked to remove the defamatory comment and not done so. Curiously, Kim's active participation on the board makes an action more likely to succeed. The fact that he does remove certain posts might be taken as a tacit approval of those he chooses not to remove.