CE Mark!

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Monty 1983

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Need some help. I am living on my boat in the BVI. She is a BVI registered boat built in the US in 1983. Until recently she was registered in the US. I need to head back to the UK for a year maybe two. A little to long to leave her on the hard with no TLC, So have to sail her back ,Great. No.I have found out about something called a CE mark. I am not intending on selling her while there just live and leave. Yachties in the bar tell me not to worry just head back no one checks and as I'm leaving and not selling there's no problem .But mates in the bar aren't always the best advice to listen to. And after doing a little research find out its a little bit more serious than they make it sound. But that comes from web sites trying to sell me there services. Any one got any experience with this, or had same problem. Would love some help, Intending on sailing back across the pound Aprilish next year so need to get this sorted..Thanks
 
You're allowed "Temporary Import Relief" when visiting the EU if you're not an EU resident. It lasts up to 18 months, and can be extended in certain circumstances. This keeps you clear of VAT and and CE mark issues. See http://jimbsail.info/going-foreign/docs-and-VAT#VAT
, which also has a useful link the HMRC Notice 8 - the bible for these things.

If you're a UK resident, you'll need to look very closely at the regs to see if your time overseas and time in UK allow you to import your goods free of any duty.

I hope you enjoy Notice 8. It's dense reading. And UK customs are very helpful about answering questions by phone, so don't hesitate to ring them.
 
Monty 1983 said:
Need some help. I am living on my boat in the BVI. She is a BVI registered boat built in the US in 1983. Until recently she was registered in the US. I need to head back to the UK for a year maybe two. A little to long to leave her on the hard with no TLC, So have to sail her back ,Great. No.I have found out about something called a CE mark. I am not intending on selling her while there just live and leave. Yachties in the bar tell me not to worry just head back no one checks and as I'm leaving and not selling there's no problem .But mates in the bar aren't always the best advice to listen to. And after doing a little research find out its a little bit more serious than they make it sound. But that comes from web sites trying to sell me there services. Any one got any experience with this, or had same problem. Would love some help, Intending on sailing back across the pound Aprilish next year so need to get this sorted..Thanks
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Just to add a little bit to Jim's observations. You will not find this straight forward as there are many exemptions that might apply, but if we start off with the ground rules you will see why you need to be very particular about you and the boat.

The basics are that any boat entering service in the EU after 1998 must have a CE mark, which means it must comply with the RCD. It is highly unlikely that your boat will comply, nor will it be either technically possible or economic to meet the requirements. That is why you see very few US boats in the EU. The boat will also be subject to duty and VAT. it is irrelevant when the boat was built.

Now the possible exemptions. First, if the boat was built in the EEA before 1998 it may be exempt from the RCD, but still liable to VAT. This exemption applies to residents and non residents. There are no other exemptions for residents, except returned goods relief, where the boat originated in the EU and paid VAT (or was exempt on the grounds of age) and was taken out and returned by the same person - typically somebody gong on a long voyage and ending up back in the EU - there are limits on this relief depending on the exact circumstances.

Now the reliefs that might apply to you IF you are a non EU resident. The first that Jim refers to is temporary importation which is intended for relatively short stay visitors up to 18 months. This allows import and use of the boat, but usage is restricted by to a limited number of people and for private use. In practical terms the period can be extended by leaving the EU and re-applying. The boat cannot be sold in the EU without being officially imported - so back to the first para.

The second possibility is if you are currently non-resident and intend taking up residence in the EU. You might then qualify for Returning Resident allowance that enables you to bring the boat in with you as personal chattels free of VAT and of compliance with the RCD. This also applies to people who have never been resident and intend taking up residence. There are conditions of previous periods of ownership and a restriction on selling, but they are not onerous.

The big challenge will be convincing HMRC that you qualify for any relief. As Jim says, the basic rules are in HMRC VAT Notice No8, but you may well need to take professional advice if you intend applying.

Do not be tempted to ignore the rules and bring the boat in illegally. It is a criminal offence and you could end up losing your boat.

There are other exemptions, for example to allow boats to come in for repairs but in practice these are limited to commercial organisations.

Hope this helps.
 
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Tranona said:
Just to add a little bit to Jim's observations. You will not find this straight forward as there are many exemptions that might apply, but if we start off with the ground rules you will see why you need to be very particular about you and the boat.

The basics are that any boat entering service in the EU after 1998 must have a CE mark, which means it must comply with the RCD. It is highly unlikely that your boat will comply, nor will it be either technically possible or economic to meet the requirements. That is why you see very few US boats in the EU. The boat will also be subject to duty and VAT. it is irrelevant when the boat was built.

Now the possible exemptions. First, if the boat was built in the EEA before 1998 it may be exempt from the RCD, but still liable to VAT. This exemption applies to residents and non residents. There are no other exemptions for residents, except returned goods relief, where the boat originated in the EU and paid VAT (or was exempt on the grounds of age) and was taken out and returned by the same person - typically somebody gong on a long voyage and ending up back in the EU - there are limits on this relief depending on the exact circumstances.

Now the reliefs that might apply to you IF you are a non EU resident. The first that Jim refers to is temporary importation which is intended for relatively short stay visitors up to 18 months. This allows import and use of the boat, but usage is restricted by to a limited number of people and for private use. In practical terms the period can be extended by leaving the EU and re-applying. The boat cannot be sold in the EU without being officially imported - so back to the first para.

The second possibility is if you are currently non-resident and intend taking up residence in the EU. You might then qualify for Returning Resident allowance that enables you to bring the boat in with you as personal chattels free of VAT and of compliance with the RCD. This also applies to people who have never been resident and intend taking up residence. There are conditions of previous periods of ownership and a restriction on selling, but they are not onerous.

The big challenge will be convincing HMRC that you qualify for any relief. As Jim says, the basic rules are in HMRC VAT Notice No8, but you may well need to take professional advice if you intend applying.

Do not be tempted to ignore the rules and bring the boat in illegally. It is a criminal offence and you could end up losing your boat.

There are other exemptions, for example to allow boats to come in for repairs but in practice these are limited to commercial organisations.

Hope this helps.
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Someone I know of bought a ketch in the states, a serious big one. Spent approx 3 years on and off there doing it up. He sailed it back here and also shipped a 40ft container over here full of his goods and chattels. Included was an an american four by four and a harley. He did it all legally, they were his personal posessions after having been out of the country for the requisite amount of time!
Stu
 
Bobobolinsky said:
Yes you must immediately get your boat on the CE register ;)

Don't worry unduly about VAT if the boat is your sole home, VAT is not payable
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Neither of those comments is correct.

There is no such thing as a "CE Register"

A Boat is not classified as a home for VAT purposes - in fact specifically excluded.

As (patiently) explained above, it could be considered as personal chattels for a returning resident or person taking up residence, but that is dependent on the status of the individual, not the fact that the boat is his home.
 
Thank you all for you help. looks like I have a lot of reading ahead. But sadly It sounds like I will not be able to head back home for a year or two with my boat with out some very hefty changes. They want there pound of flesh. I'll get some expert advice may be give them a call and keep trying..
 
tongue in cheek:

well you could come sailing up the middle of the english channel - as the few customs cutters we have dont go beyond Falmouth harbour entrance due to fuel constraints, then head into the western end of the solent , be very careful of the MASSIVE tides off of Yarmouth harbour entrance , then head for the Folly as its a traditional type of Harbour and £13.50 instead of £13.95 in Yarmouth (and they have pontoons now so best avoided) , make sure you are flying a defaced blue or white ensign before tieing up. Also wearing a blazer and chinos with your jumper tied around your neck and act like a pompous tw*t shouting about the state of the economy and how its hard to make enough money now to support your 4 houses, mention the cost of fuel too as your Bently sucks it down pretty quick , cant imagine any questions being asked to be honest .
 
Monty 1983 said:
Need some help. . . . . . . She is a BVI registered boat built in the US in 1983. . . . . .
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I used to have to check compliance at the government RF communications laboratories regarding the CE Mark. The 'E' in the CE Mark is a very specific shape and often the forgers and illegal equipment from Asia had an incorrect shape which is clearly discernible to the naked eye if you know what to look for.

The CE Mark was introduced in 1993, it is not applicable to your yacht. My yacht was made in 1984 and does not have a CE Mark and if I sailed to the Caribbean or RTW would not have a CE Mark on my return.

A law cannot retrospectively be applied to something that was constructed at an earlier date. That said, you might have to comply with other laws but the CE Mark is not one of them. ;)



.
 
lenseman said:
I used to have to check compliance at the government RF communications laboratories regarding the CE Mark. The 'E' in the CE Mark is a very specific shape and often the forgers and illegal equipment from Asia had an incorrect shape which is clearly discernible to the naked eye if you know what to look for.

The CE Mark was introduced in 1993, it is not applicable to your yacht. My yacht was made in 1984 and does not have a CE Mark and if I sailed to the Caribbean or RTW would not have a CE Mark on my return.

A law cannot retrospectively be applied to something that was constructed at an earlier date. That said, you might have to comply with other laws but the CE Mark is not one of them. ;)



.
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What you say is totally incorrect. Read my earlier post.

It is the date that the boat enters the EU that determines whether it needs a CE mark.

Your boat does not need it because it was either built in the EEA before 1998 or was in the EU in 1998 or both.

The Ops boat was built outside the EEA and has never been in so needs to comply to be used legally in the EU unless the OP qualifies for one of the exemptions.
 
>Don't worry about a CE mark the regulations came in in 2004 so your boat is exempt.

>>That is absolute rubbish! Not for the first time you have no idea what you are talking about.

On what basis do you say that? That's my understanding for privately owned boats that old.
 
lenseman said:
I agree with you if the 'import' is to be marketed but this is not a marketing venture and will not fall under the requirements of CE Marking.

The wording is "placed on the market".


.
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Bringing the boat in is the same thing. Read the explanation on the RYA Site.
 
KellysEye said:
>Don't worry about a CE mark the regulations came in in 2004 so your boat is exempt.

>>That is absolute rubbish! Not for the first time you have no idea what you are talking about.

On what basis do you say that? That's my understanding for privately owned boats that old.
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Sorry, but you clearly do not understand the rules. As I suggested to Lenseman you can read about it on the RYA Site. The subject has also been covered regularly in the yachting press. Most recently by Tom Cunliffe who has recently brought in a boat from the US for his own use. He describes the process of getting a CE mark and dealing with HMRC.

You will find everything in my original post is correct, although there are other potential issues that I did not include because they are not relevant to the situation in this thread.
 
One thing that might help is that if you can prove that your boat was "in service" in EAA waters prior to June 16th 1995 (ie a receipt for harbour fees, survey bill etc) then you can claim excemption from the RCD. The BVI's are part of the EAA.
 
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