CE Certification

[jamesjermain]

You would have to declare your cruising ground to the insurers which would be a bit of a give-away.

If you took a potential buyer to the boat on mooring in Chichester Harbour and proudly showed him the GPS, life buoys, storm canvas, radar, pilot books for the Baltic and a log showing an Atlantic crossing he might a) think you were a fibber or b) question the category D status.

The Categories are maximum limits for use and minimum requirements for design, construction and equipment, but only the latter can be enforced in this country.

<hr width=100% size=1>JJ

 

[Shanty]

Don't think I made my meaning clear.

What I was trying to say was something along the lines of:
If a boat is classified Category C (for example), this says it is suitable for use under Cat C and less severe conditions. It doesn't say that its not suitable for use under Cat B conditions. It merely says that the builder (for whatever reason) hasn't chosen to have it classified Cat B. The reason may be that the boat isn't suitable for Cat B, or it may be that the builder can't justify the extra cost of obtaining the more general classification.

Is this line of reasoning correct?


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[fireball]

I think JJ got it right:

The Categories are maximum limits for use and minimum requirements for design, construction and equipment, but only the latter can be enforced in this country.



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[AlexL]

I can see what Tim is getting at. A Cat C boat means "This boat complies with CAT C". It absolutely does not mean "This boat does not comply with CAT A or B" it makes no comments whatsoever on Cat A or B. Generally Euro boats which are Cat B are Cat B because they couldn't get Cat A, but that does not change the meaning of the categories.
I see no reason why anyone would challenge the usage. A Cat D boat means "This boat complies with all CAT D requirements" and makes no comments either way about Cat A,B or C. Besides all Pre 1995/96/97 whenever the RCD came in have no categories at all - does this mean they must stay in the car park? no I don't think so. My 1995 Moody S31 has no RCD cat at all, would probably be A or possibly B if it was built today and yet was charter coded as Cat 2 - which is a fairly serious offshore charter coding. I also know of Cat A boats with only Cat 3 charter coding. and of course some pre RCD boats have Cat 1 (basically unlimited ocean usage far from land) coding.
Charter coding cat 1 2 or 3 are different things entirely and are, i believe, enforcable in law and say things like "up to 60 nm miles from a refuge" (cat 2) i belive. It would take new legislation and a huge shift in ethos to mandate usage in line with RCD categories.

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[ccscott49]

Is there a date which all boats built before that certain date, whether they are UK Europe or USA, Taiwan etc. built. are exempt? I mean if I buy a 1981 boat in the staes, built in Taiwan, can I import it and not have to go through the CE mark rigmarole? Or can I cruise the EU, but not import the boat? How easy is it to register a boat on the SSR?

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[npf1]

To be exempt the boat must have visited an European Economic Area country or dependency prior to June 1998. Many Caribbean islands and Bermuda qualfy. Alternatively, buy a boat that was made in Europe.

BTW - the onus is on you to provide sufficent proof that the boat has visited an EEA place, BUT there are no guildines as to what constitutes sufficient proof. It's seems to be a grey area.

Would be glad to hear from anyone who knows about the proof required.

<hr width=100% size=1>Planning to be cruising 2005 & might need crew.

 

[npf1]

anyone out there knowledgeable on this stuff?

<hr width=100% size=1>Planning to be cruising 2005 & might need crew.

 

[jimboaw]

Just going to post my "claim" for RCD exemption. I have obtained from a very nice lady immigration officer on Saint Helena a certified copy of the customs entry paperwork for my boat and the owner from whom I purchased it. As it's under an "H.M. Customs" letterhead the chap at CEproof said he very much doubted that it would be disputed but you never know! Lots of Euro built boats for sale this side of the pond if you cant find one you can prove was in a qualifying place .

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[Lizzie_B]

The RCD legislation specifically states that the categories are to do with 'trade harmonisation within the EU and not about safety' (even though the standards are called 'essential safety requirments). The legislation also specifically states that 'the categories are not meant to in any way limit the use of any vessel to any particular geographical areas' even though they are described as Ocean, coastal etc.
Insurance:I have found it very difficult to find a UK insurance broker who will insure a vessel whether bought in UK or US for Ocean Crossing, long term blue water cruising, etc unless the value of the boat is up towards the £100K range. Nobody wanted to know about my american bought 1981 catalina38 (price £16000). However no problem getting insurance through American company Mariners General for use anywhere in the world ( and cheaper than insuring my old 30 footer for british and channel use in UK). The have been very helpful and flexible with my insurance needs. I just tell them my plans and they adjust the policy accordingly.Ironically, although bound in Florida, the policy is sent to london for underwriting and then back to Florida.
Re registration: The boat is British SSR registered. Whenever I have been stopped by USCG they have only required view of Bill of Sale and British Certificate of Registry. I had a British MCA bill of Sale filled out with amount in sterling at time of purchase as well as the Florida Bill of Sale as advised by HM Custom and Excise to make VAT payment easier when I eventually bring her back to UK. UK registry is about owners citizenship and place of residency not location of yacht, as is US Coast Guard Documentation. Time restrictions are two fold. One is that you have to comply with terms of your personal entry to US, for most this is 90days in any one visit unless you have specific visa that lets you stay longer. The other is an individual state matter, so you have to move your boat to another state within 90days of purchase and swear an affidavit to that effect to avoid paying in our case Florida Sales Tax. We moved to Alabama for the winter, and you must register the boat in a different state or country before returning to Florida (eg British SSR) On re entering Florida we have to move out of state every 6months or pay florida license fee, a bit like certain EU states have been doing to British boats so no difference there. We actually just winter in another state and keep the boatyard bill as proof. This winter in alabama, then back to Florida in April. Next years plans are to go up to Chesapeake and winter ashore up there and return to UK in summer 2006. Marina costs are cheap $1100 for a year in fully serviced marina as opposed to £5500 in Solent( buys a lot of airfares and dinners out) although vistors berths can be very expensive in the more popular places.
Refitting at winter is being done to RCD standards as The US NMMA has the specifications and can certify the work done. If you buy a yacht whose manufacturer is still in business they are very cooperative in supplying stability Data. Like Cat D you can self certify up to Cat B except for the stability rating which the RYA can do for a very modest fee. All in all, given the savings on boat purchase price and the cheap cruising we're getting in the US it will still be a very good buy, but it is important to take your time and not rush things as mistakes can be expensive to rectify later. If any one wants more detail please PM me.

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[jonjo]

Excellent! So you have a British SSR yacht and have avoided local US State sales tax. Then you can cruise around the States for a couple of years before dealing with UK import duty.

One possible downside is that UK customs will value the yacht at the time you import it, this might include improvements made since purchase.

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by jonjo on 07/12/2004 18:11 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[npf1]

if you are an overseas resident for more than 12 months, you can bring a boat back to the UK, VAT free, as part of your personal effects. See Notice 8 and Notice (?) for details.

<hr width=100% size=1>Planning to be cruising 2005 & might need crew.

 

[Lizzie_B]

When i spoke with HM customs before embarking on this venture they assured me that they would go by the bill of sale plus any delivery costs, eg if I employ a professional delivery skipper, or have it shipped. If I have it shipped I would also pay port duty. Vessels 12 metres or 39 feet or above are exempt import duty, those below are levied at about 1%. he said that they were not interested in the improvement aspects as it was virtually impossible to assess what was in the original purchase and what wasn't, and then they would also have to get into calculating depreciation against improvements. They apparentley have far more important things to do than send officers to assess VAT on what could be as little as a couple of grand. It is just not cost effective. However, if they found you were bringing in 2 or 3 boats per year then you may come in for closer scrutiny. In all this, I think you have to remember we are talking about a purchase price of £16000 for a yacht that you wouldn't see on the british market for less than £40 to £45 thousand so Vat and RCD then fall into perspective and costs that are still giving you a good deal. Interestingly, When you get to smaller US boats say below 35feet the price differential largely disappears and I don't think it would be a worthwhile exercise. It is basically boats 36 to 45 feet where the price differential makes it a worthwhile exercise.

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