CE Certification

[Sea Devil]

I know there was a lot about it recently but can any one tell me what happens if I import (sail across) from USA a yacht and get it a CE certificate as Category D (‘for sheltered inland waters’) what will happen when I go off shore with it and 'they???' find out?

Also where can I find the list of catagories?

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[snowleopard]

a google on 'recreational craft directive' will find loads of stuff. <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.steelboats.com/RCD/RCD_continued.htm>here's one</A>

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[npf1]

Try the RYA website or the one for a company called CEProof. Both have some info but neither specifically deal with your question.

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[Sea Devil]

Thanks guys - seems to me if I get a boat in the states and it is not already on the list I register it as inland waters and I have no problem?

Might have to take it out of Europe to sell it..

Is that right do you think?

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[jonjo]

Your interpretation of the regs nearly matches that written up in a UK yachting magazine in the last 6 months. The article cited the case of a US manufactured yacht sailed into UK waters. The US design was far more worthy of a Cat A rating than many of our Cat A rated euro AWB examples.

In the end a complex and potentially expensive situation was defused via a Cat D rating. I understand that RCD categories rate design and construction standards and do not govern private usage, at least in the case of a UK registetred yacht.

I do not see why an underrated Cat D yacht could not be resold within the EEC.

I once met a French yacht owner in the Cape Verdes who had sailed there in his Cat B rated yacht. In theory he was in trouble with French authorities but this was many years ago before the RCD came into force.

One final point of note. Effective from January 2005 French authorites have rewritten the rule book governing safty equipment on new boats purchased under their lease-back arrangement. According to my French agent who has been in the business for 30 years this is a significant change for the French because it shifts emphasis for safety onto the skipper.

For example I am now able to use my nearly new 4 man liferaft as part of the initial inventory in my new Fench supplied 6 berth yacht because it is now my responsibility not to sail offshore with more than a crew of 4.

Could this signal an outbreak of commonsense in Euro land?

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by jonjo on 05/12/2004 12:37 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Sea Devil]

Jonjo thanks,
That makes me feel better about my plan... I think most legislation ends up making sense because people bang on about it if it does not.
My comment about selling one day was really about the purchesor not wanting to buy a cat D boat if he intends going offshore....
If I cannot sell Bambola via mag adverts and my web site then I will use French and English brokers - do you have an opinion about the 'best' brokers in France - Voil et Voils did not list many...

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[snowleopard]

during ARC 2001, several of the participants went to the rescue of a french singlehander whose boat sank.

the boat was cat B and he was expecting to be prosecuted for going outside the range limit when he got back to france.

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[Sea Devil]

Thanks snowleopard - I am sure he would be - one of the reasons I want to stay with a British flag

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[jonjo]

Sorry but I cannot offer an opinion on French brokers, I am not resident in France and just shopped across the Channel to take advantage of a Fench VAT "fx: small cough" rebate.

Your for-sale site looks good, the chronological list of fitted equipment is exactly what I would want to see and you have dealt effectively with the distance issue. I suggest you publish loads of digital piccies, as at the end of the day internet page column inches are effectively free.

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[Stemar]

AFAIK, there's no law about crossing oceans in a cat D boat, but your insurance company might refuse to pay out if you dent someone's pride and joy in a French marina.

The fact that the accident had nothing to do with what country you're in has nothing to do with it, nor does the fact that you've specifically covered yourself for cross-channel use.

May not be a problem, but definitely something to check

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[Sea Devil]

But my insurance covers me down to Gibraltar and they have never asked about a catagory - Has anyones insurance company asked what their boats certification is?

- and does not cat D cover close inshore protected waters with 30mm waves or something - sounds like a marina to me... Of am I wrong?

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[Sea Devil]

JonJo thanks,

I am busy varnishing and doing a tidy up - should be on board not here! As soon as I finish I will do a load of pix and put them on the site - thank you.

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[ccscott49]

I'm considering purchase in the states, but dont really give a tinkers fart whether the UK or EU think the boat is seaworthy or not. They have never asked me before about the classification of my boats so I doubt they will start now. But I will not be coming back if I buy in the states anyway!

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[Sea Devil]

I agree but suspect this is the thin end of the wedge.

Now that there are catagories it will only be a matter of time before there is legislation (as in France) forcing you to conform to the rules concerning distance offshore you can go with a catagory. I think most other european countries have this.

As night follows day the UK will become like the rest of Europe and you will need a licence to drive motor boats. Knowing the british civil servant delight in creating rules and regulations I bet they will extend it to sail boats - as I think in the USA..

I loved east coast USA and the West Indies - I will have to come back but otherwise would stay...........

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[jonjo]

> They have never asked me before about the classification of my boats

The effects of the newish regulations only kick in seriously when you import a non EU boat (new or 2nd hand) or buy new.

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[PaulS]

Did I miss something? Since when do you need certificationor licensing to operate any pleasure boat in the U.S.?

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[jamesjermain]

This is an endlessly disputatious subject. As I understand it, boat you are doing nothing illegal if you import a boat from outside the EU then get it certificated Category D. The categories are all about imports and selling and protecting European markets. The Categories have no force in law in this country, in the sense that there are no legal restrictions on what you can or cannot do with a boat in a certain category. However, French flagged and owned boats do have such restrictions and I believe other countries do to.

Your problems may come when you a) try to insure the boat, particularly if the model is not well known over here and b) when you come to sell it. If the boat is moored in coastal waters and equipped to go to sea, yet is only categories as suitable for inland waters, you could be accused of offering for sale goods unfit for the purpose.

I guess we'll have to wait for someone to do it..

I don't know the exact phazing of the categories, which include stipultations about wind strength and wave height. but the catefories are basically:

A: Ocean
B: Coastal and limited offshore
C: Sheltered coastal waters, estuariesand large inland lakes
D: Inland rivers, canals and lakes

<hr width=100% size=1>JJ

 

[Shanty]

"....Your problems may come when you a) try to insure the boat, particularly if the model is not well known over here and b) when you come to sell it. If the boat is moored in coastal waters and equipped to go to sea, yet is only categories as suitable for inland waters, you could be accused of offering for sale goods unfit for the purpose......"

Surely only true if either you claim the boat is suitable for coastal / offshore sailing, or the buyer indicates that is what he requires? If you sell a car in the middle of a field, does that imply the vehicle is suitable for off-road work?

Anyway, does this classification nonsense not indicate a minimum, rather than a maxium capability?


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[fireball]

Erm ... no - Maximum ....
your hardly going to have a yacht classified for Ocean going that would fail a category test to go on a pond are you!! ...

So the max a Cat A can go is on the Ocean,
Cat D on rivers, ponds and canals ...
- per RCD .... not per the boats actual capabilities ... I've always maintained that we (the crew) will give up long before the boat does!
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[Sea Devil]

Yes I think you are right - the americans can operate boats without any licence but most of the ones I meet have the Coast Guard 'Captains' certificte - seems almost obligitory!

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