CATAMARANS for long term liveaboard and WORLD CRUISING

[TradewindSailor]

If you have a multihull you have to be a little more selective on the stores and equipment :

An additional generator is not usually required on a cat as the engines are usually small enough and economical enough to act as the generator.

Water makers are heavy and there's really no need for them as water is available everywhere I have sailed, even in the Pacific atolls ..... and lone water makers cannot be relied on on passages so the tanks are usually full anyway at the start of the trip.

Cans of food? Food is also available around the world. Even in the poorest places on earth you will find cans of food and Nescafe. Why carry more than you immediate needs? Fresh food by far is the more nutritious and flavoursome.

Anchor rode .... 40m of 10mm on my main rode .. 10m on the rode with the Fortress ... It's been fine even in the coral sea

Spares for everything ... spares can be shipped in to most places. Two identical engines reduce the spaces and creates redundancy ..... so really there's no real need to carry heavy spares.

Spare sails ... I don't carry any spare sales. I have a set of storm sails ..... so at a push I can drive this easily driven hull if BOTH working sails get buggered .... but I can't imagine both being unusable at once.

I guess multihull sailors have a different mindset and different priorities.

 

[Tomahawk]

Choice of cat..

They look but ugly at less than 40ft. So they cost a hell of a lot. You are buying two boats..
Most have skeg keels and a lot of freeboard.. This means windage and poor upwind performance... But who cares? A gentleman should never sail upwind, just wait till the wind changes, or go the other way..

Be careful about layout of the cabin and cockpit. A lot of modern ones are designed to look pretty at the boat show (AWB) but the ergonomics are awful. We had a Lavessi. People would sit at the ends of the table and block the rest of the seating and make it impossible to walk past the galley. Similarly, the cockpit table looked nice but was a pain when actually sailing, and there was nowhere to stow it because the size and shape was just wrong. The galley looked nice, but the stowage was all out of reach.

We went flat because First Officer has arthritis in her hips. It was flat or stop sailing.

 

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

..... and I'd have a huge problem when I needed to haul her out ..... waterside acreage is expensive!

Yes, they're about as wide as they're long, aren't they? Although having said that, I once saw quite a big cruising tri whose amas folded into to touch the main hull when she/it was being berthed, thereby reducing beam considerably. I'm afraid I can't tell you anything else about it though as I didn't pay it a lot of attention -- just thought, "Now, that's a good idea."

Mike

 

[PetiteFleur]

No one has mentioned Wharram catamarans yet - several have made long voyages safely, not quite the accommodation of others but ideal for the tropics.

 

[Poignard]

No one has mentioned Wharram catamarans yet - several have made long voyages safely, not quite the accommodation of others but ideal for the tropics.

They have a more seaworthy look about them than most catamarans. I would never buy a catamaran but if I did, I'd choose a Wharram design.

 

[KellysEye]

>If you have a multihull you have to be a little more selective on the stores and equipment :

Indeed that is true but having to be selective is why few long distance sailors choose a Cat because they don't have the displacement to carry much. Which is not good if you want to spend months in coral islands where there is nowhere to buy anything and no way to order anything. Load carrying is why we bought a heavy displacement ketch.

 

[TradewindSailor]

You are a little out of date. There are many cats crossing the Pacific these days. Probably because the availability of ex-charter ones in the Caribbean. I would guess that 20% of the boats crossing are cats .... most 40-50'.

Steel yachts are getting to be rare. Too much maintenance and too much competition in space from the AWB's. Don't get me wrong .... I sure know the benefits of strong seaworthy boats, but that is not what's happening over here.

A friend of ours even brought his Fontaine Pajot through the Straights of Magellan last year!

 

[Tranona]

You are a little out of date. There are many cats crossing the Pacific these days. Probably because the availability of ex-charter ones in the Caribbean. I would guess that 20% of the boats crossing are cats .... most 40-50'.

Steel yachts are getting to be rare. Too much maintenance and too much competition in space from the AWB's. Don't get me wrong .... I sure know the benefits of strong seaworthy boats, but that is not what's happening over here.

A friend of ours even brought his Fontaine Pajot through the Straights of Magellan last year!

Think that probably sums up the way things are changing. Choice of boats for long distance cruising depends as much on what is available at the time people make their choice - and heavily influenced by their budget. So for a long time heavy displacement boats were the choice, not necessarily because they were the "best" but because there was a good supply at prices people could afford. The vast majority of people buy used boats because they cannot afford new, so they are limited to other peoples' choice - that is the choice of those who bought new in earlier times.

Suspect if you looked at choices of new boats for those who can afford them now, Cats would have a significant share of the market - for all the positive reasons suggested earlier. As you say, the supply of used Cats is increasing rapidly as charter fleets retire older boats. These become competitive with monos and improvements in design make them much more suitable for long distance cruising.

In the present market anybody with under £100k or so has a very limited choice of Cats, but once you get above that the choice of both monos and Cats gets much wider. You only have to look at the number of Cats the major producers are pumping into the market to appreciate that the landscape for used long distance cruising boats will be very different in the future. These boats have to go somewhere after the charter fleets have finished with them.

 

[jerrytug]

That's interesting food for thought Tranona, would you say that nearly all those cats which are going to change the scene will be the cruising type? Or, what proportion of them will have daggers? ( speaking as someone who would love an Outremer but can't afford one).

 

[alant]

I've just posted similar on CA website 'Conversations' forum.

Any help really appreciated.
thanks, S.

In my local offshore club 'Reading Offshore', I have met newbies to sailing who are investigating the idea of purchchasing a large catamaran for liveaboard and World cruising.

They are soon to do their Day Skipper Practical in the Solent on board a cat' and wish to get more information to add to this experience.



I believe their thoughts are that a cat' will give better creature comforts and a more practical base long term and maybe safer sailing.
If so, WHICH CAT'S are ADVISED?



Being a monohull man, with very little exerience of the joys of catamarans, I have little knowledge on the subject. Could members please enlighten?



e.g. The pros and cons etc....

When there is a stiff blow & I'm standing on the shore/marina, looking at various moored boats, it strikes me that if you wanted to up anchor & move your boat, a monohull has the possibility of sailing out should the engine fail. However, any Catamaran, looks as if getting out under engine, is the only way. The chances of sailing out, particularly to windward, is unlikely.

Can cat 'experts' comment pls.

PS, how 'easy' are cats (not necessarily high performance) to handle, compared to a mono, for relative beginners ("They are soon to do their Day Skipper Practical in the Solent")?

 

[Tranona]

That's interesting food for thought Tranona, would you say that nearly all those cats which are going to change the scene will be the cruising type? Or, what proportion of them will have daggers? ( speaking as someone who would love an Outremer but can't afford one).

The popular charter boats are either French (Fontaine Pajot or Lagoon) or South African such as leopards and built to charter company specs. High performance is usually lower on the list of priorities than space and comfort!

 

[Tomahawk]

When there is a stiff blow & I'm standing on the shore/marina, looking at various moored boats, it strikes me that if you wanted to up anchor & move your boat, a monohull has the possibility of sailing out should the engine fail. However, any Catamaran, looks as if getting out under engine, is the only way. The chances of sailing out, particularly to windward, is unlikely.

Can cat 'experts' comment pls.

PS, how 'easy' are cats (not necessarily high performance) to handle, compared to a mono, for relative beginners ("They are soon to do their Day Skipper Practical in the Solent")?

Manoeuvring a cat is a totally different beat to a mono.
Assuming you have two engines, you can spin it on its own length with one fwd, one astern…

However there are other "features"..
Cats have a lot of freeboard.. = high windage. so if you are berthing across the wind.. it takes nerves of steel. Once the wind starts to take you sideways there is little to it but wait to arrive at the pontoon… (or whatever). Because no one makes contra rotating props for small engines, they have awful prop walk in reverse. Add that to windage … You have to be very positive and be happy to use full power when needed..

 

[TradewindSailor]

If the rudders are behind the props there is excellent control in beam winds even with high windage. It doesn't even take long to learn. Contra-rotating props are superfluous when you have 20 odd feet between them.

 

[tcm]

I've just posted similar on CA website 'Conversations' forum.

Any help really appreciated.
thanks, S.

In my local offshore club 'Reading Offshore', I have met newbies to sailing who are investigating the idea of purchchasing a large catamaran for liveaboard and World cruising.

They are soon to do their Day Skipper Practical in the Solent on board a cat' and wish to get more information to add to this experience.



I believe their thoughts are that a cat' will give better creature comforts and a more practical base long term and maybe safer sailing.
If so, WHICH CAT'S are ADVISED?



Being a monohull man, with very little exerience of the joys of catamarans, I have little knowledge on the subject. Could members please enlighten?



e.g. The pros and cons etc....

What type to buy? - a big one! Stability increases exponentially with size.

The crusing/saling mags often don't seem to "get" catamarans as ultimate long distance mostly-downwind cruisers. Increasing numbers on ARC rallies show that this is the way to go. If you're on a mono - the get-togethers will most likely be on another boat - a catamaran.

The marina cost thing is a red herring - you can live at anchor with nice blue sea to jump into - long after the monohulls have decided to go into a marina to get a decent night's sleep. On mono's you often find yourself waking up at night even in calm anchorage - not on a catamaran, which stays steady all day and night. This performance at anchor is super-important if living on the boat - Stingo said the average is to sail one day in eight.

Load carrying not a issue IF it's a big catamaran.

Agree with other remarks here in that crusing cats not "fun" to sail around the bay, no heeling over nor "obvious" sensation of speed. Mono sailors getting on the cat were just dumbfounded at how we could get it going to 9-10 knots and have a nice chat, have drinks, not need to clip on selves or the drinks, wander round the foredeck and so on, rather than just "hang on". So from this viewpoint, mono's are perhaps akin to a motorbike, cats more like a motorhome.

The argument that they don't self-right isn't an issue on a big cruising cat. If you really DID try get the thing over by being spectacularly over canvassed... the mast will come down way before it manages to invert the boat, and in general crusing cats are not designed with monster rigs anyway. The mechanics of the thing are that at any one time, the whole of the boat is pivoting around one hull, then around the other - it's not "precariously balancing" as some seem to think - so there's a whole heap of stability - and of course, the bigger and wider the cat, the greater this effect.

Main downside of catamarans is that good ones cost more than equivalently-nice mono.

 

[Sybarite]

What type to buy? - a big one! Stability increases exponentially with size.

The crusing/saling mags often don't seem to "get" catamarans as ultimate long distance mostly-downwind cruisers. Increasing numbers on ARC rallies show that this is the way to go. If you're on a mono - the get-togethers will most likely be on another boat - a catamaran.

The marina cost thing is a red herring - you can live at anchor with nice blue sea to jump into - long after the monohulls have decided to go into a marina to get a decent night's sleep. On mono's you often find yourself waking up at night even in calm anchorage - not on a catamaran, which stays steady all day and night. This performance at anchor is super-important if living on the boat - Stingo said the average is to sail one day in eight.

Load carrying not a issue IF it's a big catamaran.

Agree with other remarks here in that crusing cats not "fun" to sail around the bay, no heeling over nor "obvious" sensation of speed. Mono sailors getting on the cat were just dumbfounded at how we could get it going to 9-10 knots and have a nice chat, have drinks, not need to clip on selves or the drinks, wander round the foredeck and so on, rather than just "hang on". So from this viewpoint, mono's are perhaps akin to a motorbike, cats more like a motorhome.

The argument that they don't self-right isn't an issue on a big cruising cat. If you really DID try get the thing over by being spectacularly over canvassed... the mast will come down way before it manages to invert the boat, and in general crusing cats are not designed with monster rigs anyway. The mechanics of the thing are that at any one time, the whole of the boat is pivoting around one hull, then around the other - it's not "precariously balancing" as some seem to think - so there's a whole heap of stability - and of course, the bigger and wider the cat, the greater this effect.

Main downside of catamarans is that good ones cost more than equivalently-nice mono.

I understand that it is obligatory for cruising catamarans in France not to be able to be capsized by wind alone.

 

[alant]

Manoeuvring a cat is a totally different beat to a mono.
Assuming you have two engines, you can spin it on its own length with one fwd, one astern…

However there are other "features"..
Cats have a lot of freeboard.. = high windage. so if you are berthing across the wind.. it takes nerves of steel. Once the wind starts to take you sideways there is little to it but wait to arrive at the pontoon… (or whatever). Because no one makes contra rotating props for small engines, they have awful prop walk in reverse. Add that to windage … You have to be very positive and be happy to use full power when needed..

"However, any Catamaran, looks as if getting out under engine, is the only way. The chances of sailing out, particularly to windward, is unlikely."

So confirmed then.

 

[tcm]

I understandard that it is obligatory for cruising catamarans in France not to be able to be capsized by wind alone.

Hum, i dunno if there is a test, is there? - i suppose they can calc the wind speed required to exert enough force on the sail etc etc.

 

[tcm]

Um, reagrding the actual choice of catamarans ... and at the risk of sayinh "the one I chose" ... you could look at Jeantot/Alliaura/Privilege which all have that central "nacelle" - essentially a third "flying hull" between the main two, which gives massive extra support to the forestay, and lots of extra flotation up front when tearing along downwind in 6m sea etc etc.

 

[RichardS]

Um, reagrding the actual choice of catamarans ... and at the risk of sayinh "the one I chose" ... you could look at Jeantot/Alliaura/Privilege which all have that central "nacelle" - essentially a third "flying hull" between the main two, which gives massive extra support to the forestay, and lots of extra flotation up front when tearing along downwind in 6m sea etc etc.

Although I thought that the nacelle reduces the bridgedeck clearance and leads to more slamming in heavy seas. I don't have any personal experience though!

Richard

 

[TradewindSailor]

The nacelle tends to produce a softer landing and helps to stiffen the bridge deck .... it's not the only way to do it though. Obviously if the bridge deck never slams, the nacelle is superfluous ..... Gunboats, older style Outremers, Catanas