CATAMARANS for long term liveaboard and WORLD CRUISING

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I've just posted similar on CA website 'Conversations' forum.

Any help really appreciated.
thanks, S.

In my local offshore club 'Reading Offshore', I have met newbies to sailing who are investigating the idea of purchchasing a large catamaran for liveaboard and World cruising.

They are soon to do their Day Skipper Practical in the Solent on board a cat' and wish to get more information to add to this experience.



I believe their thoughts are that a cat' will give better creature comforts and a more practical base long term and maybe safer sailing.
If so, WHICH CAT'S are ADVISED?



Being a monohull man, with very little exerience of the joys of catamarans, I have little knowledge on the subject. Could members please enlighten?



e.g. The pros and cons etc....

 

[boatmike]

Pros:
Loads more space
Stable downwind (tradewinds) sailing under easily managed headsails. Sailing upright is wonderful!
No nasty rolling motion (but they do hobbyhorse)...
You can put your cocoa down on the table and go and put in a reef.... When you return it will still be there!
No big lump of iron screwed to the bottom to sink you if you are holed. They are NOT unsinkable but some are close.
Often missed but an advantage is that they are often much drier than monohulls as most of the accommodation is above the WL...
Cons
More expensive to buy
More expensive to moor in marinas etc.
Purists will look at you from thier smelly dirty damp little holes in the water with a mixture of envy and distain and mutter about it not being a proper boat.....

 

[Skylark]

Probably better to post in the Liveaboard section?

Friends of ours cast off these shores about 4 seasons ago in their Broadblue 42 and have never looked back. The skipper posts on here from time to time. Currently well east in the Med

You can have some awsome parties in the saloon and within the cockpit space of a cat.

 

[C08]

Whilste not having sailed oceans I can only give some general pointers, as a Cat convert.
Your friends would be better advised to buy a smaller cat first to get their experience on something that will give fewer problems with berthing and marinas
initially while getting more sailing experience before setting off. Something with a high reputation like a prout should be readily re-saleable. I think a large cat to a pair of novices could be a bad idea.
PROS of cat
lots of space for comfortable living
lots of storage
plenty of sites for solar panels, wind gennies etc
sailing flat apart from causing far less sickness and nausia is far less tiring on the body on long trips
No rolling downwind and at anchor
less risk of falls down companionways and steps
a shade faster than similar length monohulls apart from beating which I understand ocean sailors tend to avoid
twin engines with seperate systems gives a high level of redundancy on the power provision
easy to cook under way so helm and crew are well sustained

Cons
may not cope with wind vane steering as well as a mono
some wave slapping but many monos have this problem-jusy have to make the right choice of cat
berthing costs may be more than a mono
cats are more expensive by length, but this is not an even comparison
some people think cats are not as pretty as traditional monos

The actual choice comes down to the balance between performance, budget and ultimate safety and your friends can only decide that balance when they have a little experience. Are they happy to sacrifice a bit of weight/stability/safety for performance or are they more cautious and want the safest cat afloat and bugger the performance. They will only know what sort of sailors they are after bashing their way around the coast for a while-all very well theorizing about these things sat at home with the central heating on!
They need to get out and do it first and then they will know what they need.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Probably better to post in the Liveaboard section?

Good idea - thanks, I'll put a link hoping I wont get my wrist slapped.

S.

 

[TQA]

If buying a cat think big.

44 ft minimum this seems to be the point at which they can carry the 'stuff' liveaboards accumulate and is also the point at which they seem to stop hobbyhorsing and can make headway through short seas.

Cats outperform monohulls at anchor.

Here is a blog about a couple with little sailing experience sail a 35ft cat around the world. http://www.bumfuzzle.com/blog/2003/09/01/septemberoctober-2003/#respond

 

[boatmike]

If buying a cat think big.

44 ft minimum this seems to be the point at which they can carry the 'stuff' liveaboards accumulate and is also the point at which they seem to stop hobbyhorsing and can make headway through short seas.

Cats outperform monohulls at anchor.

Very true. I should have said that one major consideration is load bearing capability for livaboard use. Small cats with too much aboard will stop in the water or at best handle like a wet pudding. If considering a cat a bigger one (say 42-44 ft OAL) will be much more sea kindly and easier to handle than some smaller ones. You just need to get the hang of manouvering in small spaces, but offshore I would rather be on a bigun than a littleun even if short handed....

 

[sailorman]

Yachting Monthlys Geoff Pack had one for Blue Water but tragically became ill & had to sell her

 

[RupertW]

I'd agree with most of the Pros and Cons

I've never lived aboard but have chartered a few cats and also crewed one across the Atlantic.

I would certainly have bought a cat when we bought a bigger boat 3 years ago but as we have to keep it in a marina whilst we are working then went for a monhull.

As others have said they are superb for downwind sailing and for being in anchorages when monohulls have to leave (or wave their masts like crazy things) because of wave angle.

And you can beat comfortably for days, far faster than a monohull through the water but probably similar VMG.

Some cats we have chartered have been complete dogs with awful sail controls, sluggish speed and dangerously heavy fittings. One Leapard had fabulous accommodation and sailed ok (could just get it up to 10 knots) whilst another the next year was horrible in every way.

I have a great fondness for Lagoons pre hard Bimini. I happen to love the Starship Enterprise looks but mainly because I sailed one for many weeks often in very poor weather without an Autohelm and very quickly and comfortably. I sailed a Lagoon 410 but the crew had just delivered a Lagoon 380 cross Atlantic and said everything about it just fitted like a glove. They also got the 380 fully loaded up to 18 knots whereas the best we could manage with the 410 was 15 (both did 8-10 on average every day when sailed cautiously)

 

[Sybarite]

I'd agree with most of the Pros and Cons

I've never lived aboard but have chartered a few cats and also crewed one across the Atlantic.

I would certainly have bought a cat when we bought a bigger boat 3 years ago but as we have to keep it in a marina whilst we are working then went for a monhull.

As others have said they are superb for downwind sailing and for being in anchorages when monohulls have to leave (or wave their masts like crazy things) because of wave angle.

And you can beat comfortably for days, far faster than a monohull through the water but probably similar VMG.

Some cats we have chartered have been complete dogs with awful sail controls, sluggish speed and dangerously heavy fittings. One Leapard had fabulous accommodation and sailed ok (could just get it up to 10 knots) whilst another the next year was horrible in every way.

I have a great fondness for Lagoons pre hard Bimini. I happen to love the Starship Enterprise looks but mainly because I sailed one for many weeks often in very poor weather without an Autohelm and very quickly and comfortably. I sailed a Lagoon 410 but the crew had just delivered a Lagoon 380 cross Atlantic and said everything about it just fitted like a glove. They also got the 380 fully loaded up to 18 knots whereas the best we could manage with the 410 was 15 (both did 8-10 on average every day when sailed cautiously)

I find that a lot of women do not like the boat heeling too much and so a catamaran, with its living space is often a winner for cruising. The space and view are especially appreciated when mooring.

We were on a Lagoon 39 at the Salon Nautique and were very impressed by the living space, both inside and out.

 

[RichardS]

Biggest con for me, having bought a cat after years of chartering monohulls, is that cruising cats are just not exciting to sail. Strangely racing cats like Hobies, and presumably Extreme 40s or Americas Cup boats, are exciting but whereas monohulls stay exciting from dinghies upwards, cruising cats seems to have the excitement bred out of them.

Not a big issue for a liveaboard and, for us, the pros overall still outweight the cons but its worth bearing in mind.

Richard

 

[Sybarite]

Biggest con for me, having bought a cat after years of chartering monohulls, is that cruising cats are just not exciting to sail. Strangely racing cats like Hobies, and presumably Extreme 40s or Americas Cup boats, are exciting but whereas monohulls stay exciting from dinghies upwards, cruising cats seems to have the excitement bred out of them.

Not a big issue for a liveaboard and, for us, the pros overall still outweight the cons but its worth bearing in mind.

Richard

Here are two multis where the emphasis is on performance :

http://www.neel-trimarans.com/en/nos-trimarans/neel-45/
http://www.catamaran-outremer.com/en

 

[TradewindSailor]

I have a older Catana 40 that I have cruised extensively in all but the most extreme weathers. It is definitely a cruiser/racer at 5.5 tonne design displacement (very difficult to keep to in cruising mode). Even in cruising mode with the bottom swim step under water (working on reducing weight) she performs exceptionally well, although we don't press her ..... i.e. we reef early. Fun to sail ..... definitely!

There is as much variety with catamarans as there is with monohulls. Most common charter cats are roomy and have a fair capacity for cruising weight from about 12m on up. As long as they are not overloaded .... see individual design specs ..... their performance should not deteriorate.

A few brief comments on cruising cats as opposed to performance cruiser racers that are sailed light:
35' or less : tend to pitch a lot in head seas and loose momentum when sailing. This can be countered by motor-sailing upwind .... with the leeward engine on just enough to provide the extra momentum.
Cats with keels tend not to go to windward well. Dagger board cats are much better.
The more bulky the cat the less performance you should expect .... and less entertaining the sail.
More windage = less performance upwind
2 engines = redundancy, manoeuvrability, economical generator when in harbour
Low bridge decks are not normally a problem unless going upwind. Why the propensity for South African cats to have low bridge decks when the sailing environment can be the mos challenging?
Cats with keels are safer to dry out than those without PROVIDED the keels are designed to take the weight of the loaded cat .... SOME AREN'T. However with care the daggerboard cats can be dried out safely and can get into skinny waters.
Most cats have a fabulous 360 deg view from the saloon ..... and absolute navigators pleasure in wet or hot weather ..... and great in habour. Much better than the cellar like experience of most monohulls.

Cats are expensive for the same length monohull, but you'e getting almost twice the boat.

Cats are more difficult to keep warm in cold climates.

All cats need to be handled carefully. Too much sail up in steep seas and almost any cat could capsize .... but that would be extremely negligent. Stay within the designed sail plan for the given conditions and you should expect a safe sail.

Performance cats need to be handled by experienced crew. They accelerate fast and hence the apparent wind changes significantly. Going on a broad reach at 15 knots plus is exciting, but the potential for problems increases dramatically, and so does the stress.
Examples of performance production cats : Outremer, Catana ..... especially the early ones, Gunboat and Dazcat .... although these are nor really 'production'.
Typical charter cat with keels that will perform well if sailed light ..... and the have lots of party space: St Francis, Leopard/Moorings, Fontaine Pajot, Privilege.
More sluggish cats : Lagoon, Prout, Dean.

Note that chartered cats are usually close to their light condition and hence should be expected to be more sluggish in cruising condition.

I hope the above categorisations don't offend anyone, and there are many, many other cats out there production and home-builds i.e. Richard Wood's designs super cruising cats ...... and there are many 35'ers out there cruising in the high and low latitudes.

Go to this forum for more comments:
http://www.multihulls4us.com/forums/index.php

 

[ChattingLil]

Don't have anything to add personally, but over this last winter we got to know an American cruising couple who have lived and cruised extensively aboard a 12m Catalac (about 6 years so far I think).

http://www.insideriowa.com/index.cfm/17828/4870/ed_kelly_angel_louise_sails_to_puerto_rico_at_5_am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30y1Fs9vjL8

 

[single]

Biggest downside is IF a cat goes over, they don't come back up!

 

[Sybarite]

I like the Fusion 40 too:

http://www.fusioncats.com/

 

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

I'm a bit surprised that with the exception of Sybarite's link no-one has mentioned cruising trimarans.

I'm a traditional monohull man myself, but I've sailed in a 30' tri and been surprised at how much space the main hull had -- at least as much as my 3-Tonner Sanderling, and probably more. The floats had some storage space in them as well (handy), but living-aboard was in the main hull -- not in the amas or the 'deck'.

And yes, you could leave a cup of coffee on deck, go forward and change a headsail, then go back to the cockpit and pick up your coffee where you left off....

If I had to choose between a cruising cat and a cruising tri, I think I'd probably choose the tri.

Mike

 

[Sybarite]

I'm a bit surprised that with the exception of Sybarite's link no-one has mentioned cruising trimarans.

I'm a traditional monohull man myself, but I've sailed in a 30' tri and been surprised at how much space the main hull had -- at least as much as my 3-Tonner Sanderling, and probably more. The floats had some storage space in them as well (handy), but living-aboard was in the main hull -- not in the amas or the 'deck'.

And yes, you could leave a cup of coffee on deck, go forward and change a headsail, then go back to the cockpit and pick up your coffee where you left off....

If I had to choose between a cruising cat and a cruising tri, I think I'd probably choose the tri.

Mike

Neel claim that their 45' tri is 10 - 20% faster than a same length cata.

 

[TradewindSailor]

...perhaps Tri's weren't mentioned because it is a little off-topic.

Personally I think tri's are great machines, especially at the performance cruiser end ..... but I can't think of a single production tri ...... they all seem to be short run, bespoke, or plain on-offs : get your design plan and find a builder.

I've sailed tri's : they handle much more like dinghies : light and responsive.

If I was to go for cruising tri it might be something like this, or a Shuttleworth
http://au.yachtworld.com/boats/1987/Newick-Custom-Tri-2446212/United-States#.U0cWR6iSw_g

..... but I would have to go for a 50'er to have similar comforts to my 40' Catana ..... and I'd have a huge problem when I needed to haul her out ..... waterside acreage is expensive!

 

[KellysEye]

We saw the following catamarans across six and a half years in the Caribbean. One in Trinidad on a pontoon and two on the hard in Peakes. One was a South African built Cat being delivered to the USA it was being repaired for serious leaks where the forward beam had separated from the hulls. The delivery crew had gone home having refused to sail it again. Another SA cat of the same make sank with the loss of the crew also doing a delivery to the USA The second cat was being repaired after hitting a reef.

We saw two cats in Puerto La Cruz, Venezuela, one American and one Brit Prout. And that was it.

I suspect there are few long distance cats because, as said, it needs to be big enough to carry the cruising kit. To put that into context our steel boat weighed 12 tons but with cruising kit it weighed 15 tons. The other issue is marina berths are priced according to width, a cat over 40 feet would pay more than twice the price of what an over 40 foot monohull pays

The weight included a 4KvA generator; three anchors, one a monster; 200 feet of chain for the main anchor and 200 feet of chain for the two other anchors plus 200 feet of warp; three big cupboards full of tinned food, two big tool bags; two spares for everything, spare alternator, three five gallon fuel containers on deck plus the same number and size of water containers; 240 volt water maker and fridge; wind vane; complete set of spare sails, halyards and sheets; spare rigging wire to fit every shroud forestay etc plus Stalok fittings...I could go on.