Catamaran Myths

[TradewindSailor]

besides loss of steerage and the tendency to round up.......

Not with my cat ..... some cats have small rudders that could cause that. If you are going downwind fast, the last thing you want is for the cat to round up.

I did sail a Maxim once in Cape Town in 35 knots. We had the full main up (demo skippers!!! always showing off). It just pointed into the wind. We had to use the engines to get it to go downwind, and the load on the helm was terrible. They didn't sell me the cat!

 

[TradewindSailor]

One by one, and I'm an ex cat owner.

....
3/ more difficult to handle in a marina and in bad weather
.....

With 20 ft between the Maxprops and twin 30hp on the Catana 40 it's a doddle to manouvre. I often do 'bump and runs' onto marina docks to drop crew/guests off or let them on board .... no fenders, no mooring lines ...... I just hover a few inches off the dock while they casually get to/from the dock. I do tend to get applause from the monohullers ..... but then they don't know how easy it is. I don't even use the rudders unless I want to power-glide sideways.

 

[25931]

Having been messing about in boats for nearly seventy years I've had my fill of excitement & discomfort so I like cats. The Snowgoose is for sale because I like to sail single-handed & parking in Olhão Marina is a bit tricky in anything of a blow due to having only one engine so have just bought a Catalac.As others have said it depends what you want.
Jim

 

[mandlmaunder]

We brought our Solaris Sunstar 36 'Manatee' at the Emsworth cat show in 1998 and can't imagine ever owning a mono.
If you live aboard you will sail for a few days each week or month depending on your cruising life style but you will live on board 7 days a week.

The views from the saloon on a cat is as good as from the cock pit of a mono.

In bad weather you can sit inside and watch the world go by, even if you are on passage you can see and maintain a watch and be dry.

Our cat is galley down but on a mono there is no choice, so modern cats are moving toward the galley up more and more.

When we show our cat to mono sailors we meet in anchorages we often hear from the lady of the boats that our storage is a major vote winner, along with our galley and heads layouts.

We are often charged 50% more or by the square ft or mtr, but rarely use marinas as the wind is free at anchor and we prefer to anchor in a quiet spot rather than have partying holidayers singing their way up the dock at sleep o'clock at night.

The best way to keep maintenance costs down is to learn the systems on your boat and the easy fixes you can perform without expensive specialized tools.
The more familiar you are with your boat, cat or mono, the more you will enjoy her and the safer you become as you can tell when something is not quite right.
The down side, if you want to call double redundancy a down side on many cats is 2 engines along with 2 rudders and maybe 2 or 4 heads depending on the size of cat you choose, so some extra expense but if one fails you have another right there.
Had a rudder linkage fail once, locked off the disabled one and could still steer safely with the other.

Good luck in your future sailing and wether you choose cat or mono any sailor is welcome for sundowners on Manatee.

Mark and Lee

A sailing instructor I had when I did my RYA YM told me the first time you think of reefing is when you should reef, that truism holds as well for a cat as a mono.

There is a sea state for every cat that is a truly uncomfortable experience but that is usually when trying to beat to some where in a hurry and can be lessoned or stopped by bearing away a few degrees and taking a little longer to get somewhere but much more comfortably.
There is now a huge choice of sailing abilities for cats from the striped down out and out racer to the over heavily built sea going battle tank, again the choice is yours depending on the style of sailing and the amount of time you will spend on board any any one time.
If you are going to use your cat as a long term alive aboard then you will probably want a boat with better livability than if you only want to go marina and bay hoping or weekend racing where performance is of higher priority to you.

Just an aside but have you noticed that many serious races are now being dominated by custom built cats?

When you know what type of sailing you want to do then you can find the right cat for you!

 

[jamesjermain]

Tradewindsailor, did you see the article in the Sunday Times Colour Supplement about the Catana (44, I think) that went over in the Golfe de Lyon some time ago - four dead out of a crew of five. Terrible tragedy but clearly exceptional circumstances. I'm not suggesting the Catana is particularly unstable, by the way

 

[Channel Sailor]

Catamarans Pros and Cons

Over 20 years I have sailed both mono's and Cats fairly extensively, mainly cruising. My thoughts would be:

It depends at lost on the type of catamaran, as they do vary a lot.

Good Points:

Comfortable motion when at sea and at anchor, so idea for longish trips when sea legs have yet to settle in. Cooking, serving and eating meals for the whole crew when at sea is a pleasure, and strangely the boat speed increases because some of the the crew wieght moves from the cockpit to centre of the yacht! It is an incredible feeling slipping along at 7kts while the whole family is sat at the saloon table having a decent meal looking at the all around sea view (helping the watch too).

Ideal for young children/families. In fact, with young children I would only recomend a catamaran. They are stable, spacious, social at sea and in harbour, and views all around from the saloon into your location really add to the experience. Ideal at sea, at anchor and in harbour. the trampoline is great fun for the young ones too. No injuries from being thrown around and importantly no companionway steps hazard. If nothing else this last one is very important.

if you choose a light, well proportioned sail area, (quick) catamaran, then sailing it is fun, and a pleasure.

Slightly faster (undersail) on almost all courses, though average passage times not a lot higher because speed under engine is often slightly below average.

Smaller sails to handle, maintain, store, buy/replace. slightly shorter mast. Often simpler standing rigging. The commonly used fully batten mains are a pleasure to use as well.

Disadvantages:

A lot more GRP to clean and polish (inside and out). Cleaning the huge inside after a weekend away is quite a chore. A little more antifouling required, but I think not a lot as there is no really deep keel. Twice as much boot top and taping though. Two rudders to maintain, sometimes two centre boards.

If on a swinging mooring, then summer mooring fees are OK. Marina fees often very expensive. Winter storage is often 50% more than mono.

More windows to maintain to prevent leaks from a flexing hull, because most of the hulls flex. If you buy one, check how old the window sealant is.

Being entirely single handed is not so easy on a cat, it is long way around the yacht, and often high above pontoons

Other points:

For a lighter/faster cat, unless racing on the edge, if you think for a second that a reef could be needed, then put one in. It is so easy to reef at the mast on a cat, in fact quite fun is most conditions.

Keep the weight off, all the time. Buy your weeks stores when you arrive in destination, not before you leave. Fill tanks with what you need only. Be ruthless in removing weight, and choose low weight essential items. You might laugh, but I used take half empty bottles of, veg oil, olive oil, coffee jars, soap bottles, spare engine oil. I joke with my crew about drilling holes in soap bars and cutting the handles of toothbrushes. All of this was to keep the catamran nimble and hence FUN to sail.

I never found any problems with manouverability in a cat, you just get used to it and plan ahead.

For family English channel crusing, choose a cat every time. For Solent and local bay sailing, probably not worth the extra costs unless is it a day sailing type cat (which BTW I would opt for a tri which is faster still and more fun in inshore waters).

I currently have a 24ft cornish crabber monohull, which I single hand in very local waters in the Solent, with an occasional overnight passage. But have my eye on a Dragonfly Tri.

 

[Channel Sailor]

Tradewindsailor, did you see the article in the Sunday Times Colour Supplement about the Catana (44, I think) that went over in the Golfe de Lyon some time ago - four dead out of a crew of five. Terrible tragedy but clearly exceptional circumstances. I'm not suggesting the Catana is particularly unstable, by the way

But for every one of these stories covering the wholem of europe, there is probably another one about a "boat" that sank with all hands lost (or lost without trace), and two more about motorist/passenger killed on the motorway on the way to their sailing weekend, and another one about the a motorcyclist knocked off their bike by a tired skipper returning home late in his car after a milk run weekend Southampton to Cherbourg and back in a pitching monohull. And probably one husband who ended up divorced because his wife was always seasick on his monohull. I think one needs to try it for yourself and see

 

[TradewindSailor]

Tradewindsailor, did you see the article in the Sunday Times Colour Supplement about the Catana (44, I think) that went over in the Golfe de Lyon some time ago - four dead out of a crew of five. Terrible tragedy but clearly exceptional circumstances. I'm not suggesting the Catana is particularly unstable, by the way

James ...... I didn't see the article, so I don't know the circumstances. I do know that a few Catanas were over-rigged so that they could have more success at racing ...... but whether they were or not shouldn't imply that they would have more sail up than would be safe for the conditions.

I can only assume that in this case there were exceptionally steep seas and the boat was over-canvassed for the conditions. Catanas do have a good defense against steep seas .... we pick up the daggerboards to allow the boat to slip sideways rather than trip up like keeled cats ...... but then you must lift them up. Either way you can't condemn any boat for bad crews.

 

[TradewindSailor]

Found the article here ... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7111417.ece

James ...... The following is taken from the instruction manual for a Catana 381 (My boat doesn't have one) :

ROUGH WEATHER



Navigating:


Sailing in bad, rough weather has been the subject of a great many books, all interesting, some famous and strongly recommendable, it is impossible to put all of. this in one page, but we can give you a few words of advise concerning the characteristics of your CATANA, as well as some advise on the survival of a Multihull which has had some trouble.


The architecture of CATANAS, makes them dynamic and capable of distinguishing themselves when compared to other cruising sail-boats...you must use this strength when faced with rough weather.
In other words, the safeness of your CATANA is in her movement, including her movement at high speeds.


This comment may seem to contradict what was written earlier on in this document, about safety at different levels of speed and how to stay in the range of speed for «*normal use*».
These rules do apply in rough weather as long as you have enough sails to reduce the speed, you could also try to slow the ship right down to a stop...this is exactly what you must never do with a CATANA ( there is only one exception to the rule, we will come back to that latter ). In normal conditions, the force which pushes the ship forwards is for the most part, concentrated very high above the deck, which can create a force capable of making the ship capsize or pitchpole, obviously you should reduce this as much as possible.
The hull bottoms have been designed to trim and go in proportion to the speed so as at least to avoid the pitchpoleing; as for the risk of capsizing, this is reduced by raising the dagger-boards so as to allow the ship to «*slide*»sideways. We must add that any system designed to slow the ship down also reduces the possibility, or even makes it impossible to «*slide*».
If in rough weather, without sails, you still attain high speed, the force which pushes forwards pushes on the ship itself, without creating a significant strength, however, the pitchpoleing effect remains in proportion to the speed.

In other words, speed can be very beneficial, above all because it help to cut down on shocks your ship could suffer from.


In winds above 60 knots, the average speed of your CATANA, sails down, can be about 12 knots, the waves are capable of taking you up to 20 knots for several minutes.


The worry very often mentioned, is that of «*catching the preceding wave*». Which, in our experience has never been justified, even in the Mediterranean, where the waves are particularly short.

When the waves are to short, you can meet with difficulty in maintaining speed in the race away from the rough weather, rather tending to luff up under the shock of the waves instead of surfing. In this case the solution can very often be to have a very small Genoa surface, and to push the dagger boards down to 1/3 maximum.

By bad-luck or carelessness, the bad weather can take you adrift close to a dangerous or hostile coastline.......
The first manoeuvre to try in this case, is facing windward with the dagger-boards to a third (maximum), the mainsail on the low reef, the Genoa completely wound and both engines at half their full speed.
This only becomes impossible when the waves are too high...the risk of going backward must be avoided, it is the biggest danger of this manoeuvre. It’s only in this situation that you would be forced to slow your boat down or completely stop it.


====

The skipper of the Catana that capsized not only chose to ignore these explicit recommendations, but he also deployed a parachute anchor in a dangerous and ultimately fatal way.

James ..... if you sailed to sea in your monohull with your forehatch open in a force 6 and failed to pump out the water your boat would sink. This is no more stupid than the actions of the skipper on that Catana.

 

[Rickm505]

What hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that regardless of hull design greater than 95% of a boat's life is spent at the dock. at anchor or on a mooring. There is no better platform than a catamaran when at anchor. I will wholehardedly concede that monohulls are much more exciting to sail than a cruising cat. Yet, after reading this thread in it's entirety, it becomes clear that a person's sailing area must have everything to do with a boat buying decision.

In the tropics there is no better boat for the sailing area than a catamaran.

 

[TradewindSailor]

....... I will wholehardedly concede that monohulls are much more exciting to sail than a cruising cat. ........

There is as much variety in catamaran sailing performance as there is with monohulls. Sail a Outremer, Catana, Daz, Schionning, Crowther, Chris White, etc, designed/built catamarans and you will have some fun.

Prouts, Deans, Broadblues, Lagoons, Catalacs, Moorings-Leopards ..... are more sedate and much less likely to get the adrenaline pumping ...... but then they still offer good downwind performance.

Fontaine Pajots are pretty good fun too .... but would rate them between the first and second group.

 

[KellysEye]

>Long-term cruisers in around and to/from the caribbean though - they want a catamaran

Having spent six years sailing in the Caribbean, where the very great majority of long term cruisers have monos, I haven't heard or seen any rushing off to trade their boat for a cat.

The charter industry out there is a whole different ball game. Inexperienced Americans wanting girly sailing = charter cat.

 

[Boo2]

1 They don't capsize.

Think this is false, they will capsize under the same extreme circumstances a monohull will but they won't self-right, obviously.

2 They are no more expensive in marinas than a mono. In fact, some marinas love them because they can get into difficult shallow berths.

Dunno about marinas, but they should do OK on drying berths in harbours, on rivers etc so could end up being a lot cheaper to moor than a fin keeled monohull.

4 They are cheaper to maintain as they carry less sail than a similar length mono, so the deck gear and rigging can be lighter.

I thought the fact they can't heel in response to a gust meant that the rigging and gear has to be heavier ? (That may refer more to racing multihulls though...)

Boo2

 

[Rickm505]

Think this is false, they will capsize under the same extreme circumstances a monohull will but they won't self-right, obviously.

This comment I suppose is technically true, yet you have to get much more specific in answering. Catamarans caught with dagger boards down can possibly go over in a gust. Catamarans with fixed keel or no keel, not so much. In the Queen's Birthday storm, no catamaran was lost in the storm or capsized. All monos were rolled and dismasted. That was a typhoon.

I thought the fact they can't heel in response to a gust meant that the rigging and gear has to be heavier ? (That may refer more to racing multihulls though...)

Yes, Cruising Catamarans can not unload their sails in high winds. We are taught to reef early. Rigging and spars are much heavier (more expensive) than a similar LOA mono.

>The charter industry out there is a whole different ball game. Inexperienced Americans wanting girly sailing = charter cat.

LOL ... girly? ..... no rolling at anchor is girly? As opposed to the masochistic Euro sailors? Can one assume you choose to drink your ale out of a sippy cup? ... now there's a Kodak moment! Put your Mrs on a Cat for a week and I think you might be singing a different tune.

 

[Garold]

Catamarans are for girls??

Just thought that I would add a few random comments..........

First, who ever listened to a salesman and believed everything that they said. Cat salesmen can address every objection that you have about their product and monohull ones to their products. Salesmen even manage to sell big mobos in this tricky economy. Amazing.

Secondly, if you are going to ask for a viewpoint it's probably best to ask someone who has parted with their own hard earned cash and purchased the product. But beware, because if they have made a mistake and bought something that isn't exactly what they believed it would be, they probably won't admit it. I've got a garage full of rubbish that I thought would change my life for the better, but the router is still in the box, and that 'flat abbs machine' will rust and fall apart before I use it again. I hope the wife's forgotten the money spent.

So how do you decide?

I guess one can only solicit wide and varied opinion from all and sundry, remembering what investment they have in their viewpoint. And then, given that you will have nothing conclusive, make your own decision, because if you get it wrong it's only you that will sort it out (or live with it).

Me? After a 50 foot wooden motorboat, followed by two French monohulls, and a French cat, I now have a Lagoon cat. I tried the Fontaine Pajot and it was too frisky for me. Made me feel seasick and old. I like the comfort of a cat at anchor, and my wife will now only sail flat. I'm have no interest in maintenance so a newer product suited me best. And as for speedy sailing, I think that the number of hulls doesn't matter really because it just isn't what I want from my boating.

But all of this is just where I have arrived after my own period of soliciting opinions, getting advice, pondering, and agonising.

Our boat seems fairly solid and safe, and we can still sail most of the time if the wind is blowing. Girly sailing? Never really sought a testosterone injection from my boats. Kind of just try to get some enjoyment from my leisure pastimes. Sail when it's windy, motor when it's not, read when it's quiet, and drink too much when it's hot. All on the level.

Suits me. Girly? Probably. Dangerous on two hulls? You got to be joking.

Then again, if I was going to cross an ocean, I think I'd have bit of trepidation, however many hulls. Probably rather travel in something with wings and jet engines.

I'm clearly losing it now. Got to go home. Randomness after a long day at work........

Cheers

Garold

 

[DerrickHigton]

I knew a guy who lost two ocean-going multihulls in one season through capsize, though neither was strictly a catamaran. One was a 54ft proa and the other a 35ft trimaran.

He had some difficulty recruiting crew thereafter!

 

[KristiferColumbus]

I don't think I'd want to give up the wonderful feeling of a mono hull leaning to the wind after leaving the harbour & plowing through the waves......the rise & fall of the motion over the waves & the romance & excitement of it all for what looks like a pretty lumbering brute......I watched one of my video's last night with us out in pretty lively conditions & a cat motor sailing upwind towards us crashing through the waves & making pretty heavy going of it while we had the time of our lives......no thanks.

 

[Garold]

I don't think I'd want to give up the wonderful feeling of a mono hull leaning to the wind after leaving the harbour & plowing through the waves......the rise & fall of the motion over the waves & the romance & excitement of it all for what looks like a pretty lumbering brute......I watched one of my video's last night with us out in pretty lively conditions & a cat motor sailing upwind towards us crashing through the waves & making pretty heavy going of it while we had the time of our lives......no thanks.

I entirely agree.

You pays your money and makes your own choices. And whatsmore, it's almost impossible to get every single sailing experience from one vessel.

When younger, I had a windsurfer, and I have never even got close to the excitement and concentrated closeness to wind and waves in any larger vessel. But it just wouldn't suit me now.

I also learned to pee whilst stood at 45 degrees, tell the wife and kids how much fun we were all having as the toerail dipped beneath the foaming bow wave, and enjoy pushing gear to greater extremes. But that was then, and I've entertained a solution that suited my wife now, only to discover that it actually suited me too.

So, everyone to their own. I for one, still watch the windsurfers with a bit of envy.

As for ploughing through waves, probably right too.

Cheers

Garold

 

[Rivers & creeks]

O
If on a swinging mooring, then summer mooring fees are OK. Marina fees often very expensive. Winter storage is often 50% more than mono.

I must be the luckiest cat owner on the water! only one marina has EVER charged me more for being a catamaran and that was the notorious Swale marina that rarely has any water so largely a boat park. Shotley said they charge extra so I din't go there.

I have stayed in about 40 different marinas, from Emsworth to Texel, some for a few years, others for just a few nights. One out of 40 ain't bad.

 

[Garold]

I must be the luckiest cat owner on the water! only one marina has EVER charged me more for being a catamaran and that was the notorious Swale marina that rarely has any water so largely a boat park. Shotley said they charge extra so I din't go there.

I have stayed in about 40 different marinas, from Emsworth to Texel, some for a few years, others for just a few nights. One out of 40 ain't bad.

I am with you Muddy Paws. We have rarely paid extra for short or long term berths for a catamaran. However, we have been asked for extra fees and then usually swiftly found an alternative.

But the reality is that if one sails South coast UK, and visits marinas without being a bit strategic, then one would be likely to pay a premium some of the time.

The fact of the matter is that we are now more self sufficient and so anchoring out better suits us now, and we are happier away from the crowds. If mooring, we often choose the berths with no services because they suit us better now, are cheaper, and keep us away from the busy areas.

In our old monohull we made good use of the marina toilets and showers etc. We also felt that we wanted to get off the boat to give us a bit of outside scenery from living below deck level. On the cat, one doesn't feel quite the same.

But I entirely agree with some other posters that you can't have it all, and multihulls have their disadvantages.

Cheers

Garold