Catamaran floating upside down

[Birdseye]

A friend had a Fontaine-Pagot catamaran, and that came with a specification about the maximum sail to carry in various wind strengths. It was definitely in the manual, but I think there may also have been a notice plate with those limits fixed to the boat, either in the cockpit or just inside the bridgedeck saloon.

Makes sense since the lack of heeling makes it way more difficult to judge wind pressure than on a mono.

There is a report somewhere ( from Southampton Uni I think) about catamaran capsize risk which highlights the under bridge area as a key factor along with deep keels. The ideal cruising cat has shallow keels to allow sideways slide together with a narrow format, but that tends to make them poor performers to windward. As my old Prout cat was.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I think something is wrong either in your reading, recollection or perhaps it’s just old. The ideal cruising cat has daggerboards, mesh deck up forward, wide beam, and a sensible rig, not absurdly small either. People prefer shallow keels sometimes for ease, but you can’t retract them. It should also be streamlined, old prouts, worthy though they may be, are history. Even Roland bought a Dragonfly. Try Darren Newton for current thinking

 

[sailaboutvic]

It's been recovered

 

[capnsensible]

I think something is wrong either in your reading, recollection or perhaps it’s just old. The ideal cruising cat has daggerboards, mesh deck up forward, wide beam, and a sensible rig, not absurdly small either. People prefer shallow keels sometimes for ease, but you can’t retract them. It should also be streamlined, old prouts, worthy though they may be, are history. Even Roland bought a Dragonfly. Try Darren Newton for current thinking

You are saying that to a person who has stated they owned one.......duh.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

You are saying that to a person who has stated they owned one.......duh.

Used to own a now very outdated design.

 

[capnsensible]

Used to own a now very outdated design.

Which one.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

He did mention it, pretty sure you can read. In fact, I sense you’re being irritating for the sake of it.

 

[capnsensible]

He did mention it, pretty sure you can read. In fact, I sense you’re being irritating for the sake of it.

Not at all. I've sailed several Prout catamarans. There are plenty around. Some years ago I delivered a Quest from the Clyde to Gibraltar. The furthest I've sailed one. I used to borrow a friend's Quest to sail from Pompey across the Channel a lot. I also took an Event from the Clyde to Pompey. A boat I had helped a bit to build.
I'm asking about your personal experience of the Marque to establish why you have such a disdainful attitude to a style of yacht that gives pleasure to so many owners.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Not at all. I've sailed several Prout catamarans. There are plenty around. Some years ago I delivered a Quest from the Clyde to Gibraltar. The furthest I've sailed one. I used to borrow a friend's Quest to sail from Pompey across the Channel a lot. I also took an Event from the Clyde to Pompey. A boat I had helped a bit to build.
I'm asking about your personal experience of the Marque to establish why you have such a disdainful attitude to a style of yacht that gives pleasure to so many owners.

You misunderstand me. What I said was that his post was out of date, as was his boat. Thousands of boats from the 1970’s are still giving pleasure to owners, but designs, and percieved wisdom about seaworthiness, move on. Prout aren’t the cutting edge. No is my 20 year old tri. I still love that, and, tbh probably wouldn’t upgrade to a DF28 if I could afford it, I don’t like the look, and it’s little if any faster, and I have no need of the better layout, it's just 2 of us for cruising. Many prouts are still giving valiant service, I get you. Darren Newton’s designs are more seaworthy, faster, more spacious and comfortable. You’d kind of expect that right? 50 years, you expect progress.

 

[geem]

You misunderstand me. What I said was that his post was out of date, as was his boat. Thousands of boats from the 1970’s are still giving pleasure to owners, but designs, and percieved wisdom about seaworthiness, move on. Prout aren’t the cutting edge. No is my 20 year old tri. I still love that, and, tbh probably wouldn’t upgrade to a DF28 if I could afford it, I don’t like the look, and it’s little if any faster, and I have no need of the better layout, it's just 2 of us for cruising. Many prouts are still giving valiant service, I get you. Darren Newton’s designs are more seaworthy, faster, more spacious and comfortable. You’d kind of expect that right? 50 years, you expect progress.

It depends on how you explain seaworthy. Prout have an incredible safety record. They built a lot of boats ot which a huge number went ocean sailing. They are very difficult to turn over. By comparison Darren Newton designs are very few. It's hard to trip over mini keels. Not so with daggerboards. Yes there is a performance benefit with daggerboards but not necessarily safer. Size plays the biggest part in multihull safety in my view

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I disagree. The crew plays the biggest part in multihull safety. You can be an idiot in a mono, once or twice at any rate, and stand a chance of getting away with it. Failure to do the right thing in a multi, and you’re another headline.

 

[geem]

I disagree. The crew plays the biggest part in multihull safety. You can be an idiot in a mono, once or twice at any rate, and stand a chance of getting away with it. Failure to do the right thing in a multi, and you’re another headline.

That's where type of multihull makes a difference. You can get away with being a numpty on a Prout. They are not that fast or light. I agree that in survival conditions I would rather be in a monohull than a multihull. If I am going to be in the multihull then you would be better off in a dam big one as long as it doesn't fall apart

 

[Chiara’s slave]

And you’d be better off in a wide dagger board boat, with the boards up. Besides, you might have outrun the weather.

 

[geem]

And you’d be better off in a wide dagger board boat, with the boards up. Besides, you might have outrun the weather.

Yes, outrunning storms would be great in a large high performance catamaran but that's not what most people sail. Most sail overweight , fat hulled condominiums with one or two stories high. They don't sail particularly fast. There are exceptions, our friends 56 ft high perfromance cat is fast in the right weather but it cost $2M US in 2001. Out of the league of most Practical Boat owners

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Yes, outrunning storms would be great in a large high performance catamaran but that's not what most people sail. Most sail overweight , fat hulled condominiums with one or two stories high. They don't sail particularly fast. There are exceptions, our friends 56 ft high perfromance cat is fast in the right weather but it cost $2M US in 2001. Out of the league of most Practical Boat owners

Well, you don’t need to spend 2 mill, but yes, good cats are more expensive than good monos. And most people sailing around in a small block of council flats don’t cross oceans, thankfully!

 

[geem]

Well, you don’t need to spend 2 mill, but yes, good cats are more expensive than good monos. And most people sailing around in a small block of council flats don’t cross oceans, thankfully!

Maybe, but my friends boat has crossed the Pacific and the Atlantic a couple of times and has no broken bulkheads. If you look at HH boats, Gunboats or Balance Cats then you are in the million plus price bracket. There are not many high quality performance cats under £1M

 

[capnsensible]

Well, you don’t need to spend 2 mill, but yes, good cats are more expensive than good monos. And most people sailing around in a small block of council flats don’t cross oceans, thankfully!

Disagree, I'm afraid. Hundreds cross the Atlantic every year. Many go on through Panama to the Pacific.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

More fool them, I couldnt bear to even leave a marina in one, I like sailing, for which I require a sailing boat. Hence my referencing Darren’s boats. They sail, they’re seaworthy, and they don’t cost 2 mill. Is a 46 ft cat big enough for you guys? It would be for me, though I have no ambitions to cross oceans regardless of what boat I had. If I did, that’s what I’d do it in.

 

[capnsensible]

Thousands of people sail oceans on boats other people don't like. But they are out there doing it.....

Last year I delivereda Lagoon 46 from San Carles near Barcelona to Lanzarote. Very pleasant, comfortable trip.

The boat is now in the Windies and heading for Panama soon. Doers and talkers, I suppose.

 

[Stemar]

Is a 46 ft cat big enough for you guys?

Far too big for me, but I've no ambitions to cross oceans. I don't think my lottery win boat would be more than about 36'