CAT3208 Diesel Bug issues...

[compie1]

Hi a while since i have been here but wanted to share same thing as you friend that happend to me last month, and we solved it without problem, 3208ta 435hp same problem low on fuel smell of white spirit / watery taste (not diesel smell). port engine did not start at all. fuel solenoid ok , we opened fuel pump to see that the axles were jammed, must go up and down, 4 of the bearings that hold the plunger axels in place were not moving, seized, asked CAT for parts: plunger 1W3010 €107,00 a piece ex vat (X4...), started to search the web and found in the US the 1W3010 non original but build to spec at $55,00 so worth the try, ordered & installed them, fresh filter and fuel (premium diesel stuf) after 1 turn run and still does even better as before with the old plungers. we noticed on the packing of the plungers a brand called: DISA iniezione S.P.A. ... living in Italy, it seamed a Italian company in Milan...Italy-US-Italy...
Same day we tried the other one, running fine the other day, also jammed, knowing the problem we opened the pump cover to find 6 out of 8 bearings jammed, i checked the old ones from the other and found we could unlock them with a tube, thinking it would work we got them lose and reinstalled it all, NOPE not even one would fire up, seizing the bearing kind of deforms the plunger and looses pressure inside the pump instead of priming it to the injector line, helping with the prime pump got it running on 4 cilinders...

Called the Italian Company DISA, seams the have their (own) retailer called YOUDIESEL.com whom selles directly to us for... € 23.55/piece ex vat ... without shipping, they also have the complete fuel injection pump assembly think for 3208 it is 9N5857 dont know the price but it was not difficult to remove and rebuild without removing the pump from the engine, only keeping an eye on dust or paint not falling inside the pump and flushing her 3to4 times with fresh premium diesel (on the backside of the pump there is a draining bolt (long 8cm))both running excellent now and better as never before, i think sometime 1 or 2 cilinders misfired and now none...

 

[vas]

Hi a while since i have been here but wanted to share same thing as you friend that happend to me last month, and we solved it without problem, 3208ta 435hp same problem low on fuel smell of white spirit / watery taste (not diesel smell). port engine did not start at all. fuel solenoid ok , we opened fuel pump to see that the axles were jammed, must go up and down, 4 of the bearings that hold the plunger axels in place were not moving, seized, asked CAT for parts: plunger 1W3010 €107,00 a piece ex vat (X4...), started to search the web and found in the US the 1W3010 non original but build to spec at $55,00 so worth the try, ordered & installed them, fresh filter and fuel (premium diesel stuf) after 1 turn run and still does even better as before with the old plungers. we noticed on the packing of the plungers a brand called: DISA iniezione S.P.A. ... living in Italy, it seamed a Italian company in Milan...Italy-US-Italy...
Same day we tried the other one, running fine the other day, also jammed, knowing the problem we opened the pump cover to find 6 out of 8 bearings jammed, i checked the old ones from the other and found we could unlock them with a tube, thinking it would work we got them lose and reinstalled it all, NOPE not even one would fire up, seizing the bearing kind of deforms the plunger and looses pressure inside the pump instead of priming it to the injector line, helping with the prime pump got it running on 4 cilinders...

Called the Italian Company DISA, seams the have their (own) retailer called YOUDIESEL.com whom selles directly to us for... € 23.55/piece ex vat ... without shipping, they also have the complete fuel injection pump assembly think for 3208 it is 9N5857 dont know the price but it was not difficult to remove and rebuild without removing the pump from the engine, only keeping an eye on dust or paint not falling inside the pump and flushing her 3to4 times with fresh premium diesel (on the backside of the pump there is a draining bolt (long 8cm))both running excellent now and better as never before, i think sometime 1 or 2 cilinders misfired and now none...

thanks for the very interesting pointers, I'll pass them on to my friend for next time (say 10-15yrs from now?) He had to change all of them at a cost of 100euro or so a piece. 1.6K just for the plungers !!!
Good thing is that after turning around the fuel, cleaning filters regularly, had a nice 10day vacation with no issues (other than running empty on an occasion on the one engine due to filter/pipe issues sucking air and causing issues. Now all fixed and fingers crossed wont be back again.

cheers

V.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I don't think that's true, with Cat 3208 engines.

Yup it is true. I had a 3208TA shut down on me between Denia and Ibiza many years ago due to a faulty alternator draining the battery bank feeding the stop solenoid. No power, no fuel

 

[MapisM]

Yup it is true. I had a 3208TA shut down on me between Denia and Ibiza many years ago due to a faulty alternator draining the battery bank feeding the stop solenoid. No power, no fuel

Well, I'm not insisting a lot because as I said before I am not 100% sure for the 3208, but also volvopaul post #8 seemed to confirm that the solenoid works as in my 3116.
Are you sure that you didn't have also some valves on the tanks which, if not powered, closed the fuel supply? Just a thought.

 

[Hardmy]

The stop sol on the 3208 is purely a device that pushes against a lever inside the pump pushing the control rack into no fuel position. In the past I have had to push the solenoid down by hand to stop an engine, no need to go undoing injector pipes to stop it running.

This is exactly what my mechanic showed me how to do (on my 3208TA's), should I need an emergency shutdown.

 

[boatmike]

Most land based vehicles have solenoids that open the fuel valve upon activation. This causes the engine to cut out when power is removed ostensibly as a safety measure in a crash. Most marine diesel solenoids are wired to activate to cut off the fuel supply when energised to avoid an electrical failure stopping the engines. "Most" however is not "all". Notably marinised engines originally designed for land use often retain their original fuel pumps. The Cat in question may possibly be one of these....
Also worth noting that fuel contamination can affect the valve. Replacing the solenoid will not necessarily clean out the fuel pump internally so wont cure a problem like this.
My own recent experience clearing a similar problem is that you won't make the problem go away unless you physically clean the tank. It will seem OK until you hit rough seas and the contents of the tank are stirred up and your engines stop just when you need them most. On my old Aquastar I had to remove a lot of furniture, floorboards etc just to get access to the top of the tanks (450 litres each) Then I had to cut 2 access hatches in addition to the one already there to get behind baffles. What came out almost half filled a 2 gallon bucket. I would never have flushed it out by other means. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings but your situation sounds similar.

 

[MapisM]

I had some time to kill this morning, so I googled around a bit, out of curiosity.
For the records, it appears that for many engines, 3208 included, both ETS and ETR shutdown solenoids are available.
ETS being "Energize-To-Shutoff" and ETR - no prize for guessing - "Energize-To-Run".
...not that all this really matters anyway, with regard to bug issues!

 

[vas]

I had some time to kill this morning, so I googled around a bit, out of curiosity.
For the records, it appears that for many engines, 3208 included, both ETS and ETR shutdown solenoids are available.
ETS being "Energize-To-Shutoff" and ETR - no prize for guessing - "Energize-To-Run".
...not that all this really matters anyway, with regard to bug issues!

P.,
if you have lots of time to kill, got a few things you could do for me

Just to note that my mate's 3208 had the extra issue that the bug somehow blocked the shutoff valve and you couldn't kill the engine even by manually pressing the top of the thing no matter how hard you pressed. That was the dangerous circumstance that one would not want to even think of.

Having said that my port IVECO engine has the lever and shutdown valve nicely placed between the two engines so I can pull it in a sec, however the stbrd engine has it on the hull side and with engine running it's not a thing I would consider.
Can one install a morse type control with a conveniently placed lever to pull and shut the engine?

cheers

V.

 

[boatmike]

P.,
if you have lots of time to kill, got a few things you could do for me

Just to note that my mate's 3208 had the extra issue that the bug somehow blocked the shutoff valve and you couldn't kill the engine even by manually pressing the top of the thing no matter how hard you pressed. That was the dangerous circumstance that one would not want to even think of.

Having said that my port IVECO engine has the lever and shutdown valve nicely placed between the two engines so I can pull it in a sec, however the stbrd engine has it on the hull side and with engine running it's not a thing I would consider.
Can one install a morse type control with a conveniently placed lever to pull and shut the engine?

cheers

V.

The shutoff valve is often one of the first things to suffer if you get grit in the pump. All of the internal workings of the pump are machined to incredibly tight tolerances and a small piece of grit can cause all kinds of damage. If grit gets in the shutoff valve it could easily jam it and in the worst case not only the solenoid wont move it but the external lever wont either. That is unusual though and the manual override usually works even if the solenoid wont.
To your second question, it is an excellent idea to have a way of shutting off the engine in an emergency. In particular in a fire situation where the electrics are fried it is good to be able to stop the engine from outside the engine room. On my boat even with the floor boards up I cant reach the emergency stop on the starb'd engine, so I have rigged a short wire cable to pull under the sink which is above it. The port one is under a seat. Not needed to use them yet but they are there just in case........

 

[MapisM]

Can one install a morse type control with a conveniently placed lever to pull and shut the engine?

Possibly, but while I've often seen a remote lever for shutting off the fuel tank valves, I've never seen such thing on any boat.
And I don't think it would be easy to retrofit it either, due to the solenoid position and how it works, at least on my engines.
Just for your reference, below you can see it (the thing with the red button, just to the left of the fuel filter).
Btw, also this one is rather hard to press - I would say almost to the point of hurting your hand, being the button rather small, 1cm or so diameter... :ambivalence:

 

[boatmike]

Possibly, but while I've often seen a remote lever for shutting off the fuel tank valves, I've never seen such thing on any boat.
And I don't think it would be easy to retrofit it either, due to the solenoid position and how it works, at least on my engines.
Just for your reference, below you can see it (the thing with the red button, just to the left of the fuel filter).
Btw, also this one is rather hard to press - I would say almost to the point of hurting your hand, being the button rather small, 1cm or so diameter... :ambivalence:

Yes I agree, It would require a bit more engineering to press the type that has a rubber covered button, but still not impossible. On my Volvos it was easy as it only requires turning a lever which is easy to attach a cable to. Still worth rigging something up though I would have thought and not rocket science.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Are you sure that you didn't have also some valves on the tanks which, if not powered, closed the fuel supply? Just a thought.

100% sure. It was later confirmed by an electro-mechanic

 

[MapisM]

Well, you must have had ETR solenoids then (see my post #27)...