Gludy
Well-Known Member
This survey is only for those who have experienced a Sailing Cat at sea
Cat Survey
- Thread starter Gludy
- Start date
Talbot
Well-Known Member
This is a question that is difficult to generalise.
Downwind - without question
upwind-- tend not to be so tight on the wind, but moving faster, the resultant movement does not pound as much, but may corckscrew more.
across wind - depends on the angle, and the boat. This can get a bit uncomfortable with pounding underneath the bridgedeck and a relatively rapid change of angle as a big wave goes underneath, but changing the angle and speed can significantly improve things.
Downwind - without question
upwind-- tend not to be so tight on the wind, but moving faster, the resultant movement does not pound as much, but may corckscrew more.
across wind - depends on the angle, and the boat. This can get a bit uncomfortable with pounding underneath the bridgedeck and a relatively rapid change of angle as a big wave goes underneath, but changing the angle and speed can significantly improve things.
rich
Well-Known Member
As I said in the other post, down wind all the way to Cowes from Jersey, 12 hours in force 6 to 8.
I don't think we would of left the harbour on a motor boat of 60ft
I didn't even spill my coffee /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I don't think we would of left the harbour on a motor boat of 60ft
I didn't even spill my coffee /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Gludy
Well-Known Member
In what boat was that trip?
Gludy
Well-Known Member
A very nice looking boat - is that the make or the name of the boat?
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
Brigand is a stretched Kelsall 55.
As far as the ride is concerned, we tell people 'Cats don't roll, they bounce' The motion is just different. Downwind it's a very pleasant motion without the rolling of a mono. When the wind is on the beam, especially with a steep sea running, you get a sharp roll as the boat conforms to the waves and the crests will tend to slam on the underside of the bridgedeck. Upwind it depends on the ratio of boat length to wave length but for the most part the motion is rapid pitching where a mono would push its way through the seas by virtue of its weight.
So I can't answer your poll unless you specify boat size and wind angle.
As far as the ride is concerned, we tell people 'Cats don't roll, they bounce' The motion is just different. Downwind it's a very pleasant motion without the rolling of a mono. When the wind is on the beam, especially with a steep sea running, you get a sharp roll as the boat conforms to the waves and the crests will tend to slam on the underside of the bridgedeck. Upwind it depends on the ratio of boat length to wave length but for the most part the motion is rapid pitching where a mono would push its way through the seas by virtue of its weight.
So I can't answer your poll unless you specify boat size and wind angle.
hobiecat
Well-Known Member
The question is too general so I cant respond. There are good cats and bad cats. A good cat is a pleasurable experience. Pounding and slamming to windward on a heavy cat with a low bridgedeck is certainly not a pleasurable experience.
Gludy
Well-Known Member
I fully appreciate that my question is far too simplistic but it has achieved its purpose because it has drawn out the different factors and help explain a number of things to me.
jamesjermain
Well-Known Member
As others have said, there is no single answer to this question. The only generally true comment is that the motion is different to a monohull, not necessarily either better or worse.
My wife and I both quite like the motion. Others find it too choppy and unpredictable, particularly to windward, as the boat moves in three dimensions rather than two. Cats can and do slam up wind and the noise can be disturbing for newcomers. But it's all relative. On my little, high performance cat, I can leave a glass (not plastic) on the table and expect it to be there still after a few hours of hard beating.
In fact, the motion on my cat is probably better than that of a more buoyant, heavier cruising cat becasue my ultra slim bows carve through waves making the motion slower and more like a mono. On the other hand, she can throw a bit of water about and the noise under the bridgedeck is considerble.
Down wind cats are brilliant compared to monos with no rolling and just a little gentle rocking.
Overall, for me, the benefits of sailing flat heavily outweigh any other disadvantages in terms of motion. Of course there is a whole raft /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif of other benfits and drawbacks to cats which I wont get started on now.
My wife and I both quite like the motion. Others find it too choppy and unpredictable, particularly to windward, as the boat moves in three dimensions rather than two. Cats can and do slam up wind and the noise can be disturbing for newcomers. But it's all relative. On my little, high performance cat, I can leave a glass (not plastic) on the table and expect it to be there still after a few hours of hard beating.
In fact, the motion on my cat is probably better than that of a more buoyant, heavier cruising cat becasue my ultra slim bows carve through waves making the motion slower and more like a mono. On the other hand, she can throw a bit of water about and the noise under the bridgedeck is considerble.
Down wind cats are brilliant compared to monos with no rolling and just a little gentle rocking.
Overall, for me, the benefits of sailing flat heavily outweigh any other disadvantages in terms of motion. Of course there is a whole raft /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif of other benfits and drawbacks to cats which I wont get started on now.
boatmike
Well-Known Member
Overall, for me, the benefits of sailing flat heavily outweigh any other disadvantages in terms of motion. Of course there is a whole raft of other benfits and drawbacks to cats which I wont get started on now.
____________________________________________________________________
And that says it all. Most novices or passengers don't like sailing at an angle.
On a cat you can walk around very easily compared with an equivalent OAL monohull. Crew fatigue is minimal. Frankly a F5 is just about ideal for my Snowgoose and very comfortable. I do agree with others though, it depends what cat. The motion is different but not unpleasant.
____________________________________________________________________
And that says it all. Most novices or passengers don't like sailing at an angle.
On a cat you can walk around very easily compared with an equivalent OAL monohull. Crew fatigue is minimal. Frankly a F5 is just about ideal for my Snowgoose and very comfortable. I do agree with others though, it depends what cat. The motion is different but not unpleasant.
Talbot
Well-Known Member
Best advice is to try one. I would also suggest rthat you look at slightly smaller vessels, as there are significant disadvantages to such a large boat.
A 50 ft monohull is a big boat, but can often find a berth, whereas the width of a 50ft cat may make that more difficult. Unless you intend to sail always with more than immediate family, you do not need anything more than 40 ish ft. That will provide MUCH more space than a 50 ft monohull or power boat. It will also be much easier to handle, and easier to park. For example my 9m cat had 7 berths!
I suggest you look at what is available from Privilege , BroadBlue, Maxim (ask Stingo). Fontaine Pajot make very nice looking boats, but IMHO they are too lightly built for heavy use. Leopard tend to have too low a bridgedeck and can slam. The American built Manta has good reviews. The Lagoon boats are good average workhorse, but I do not like their style.
If money is no object, consider a Gunship, then enjoy passing your old cronies in their motorboats, while you just cruise under sail power! (not for the faint hearted)
A 50 ft monohull is a big boat, but can often find a berth, whereas the width of a 50ft cat may make that more difficult. Unless you intend to sail always with more than immediate family, you do not need anything more than 40 ish ft. That will provide MUCH more space than a 50 ft monohull or power boat. It will also be much easier to handle, and easier to park. For example my 9m cat had 7 berths!
I suggest you look at what is available from Privilege , BroadBlue, Maxim (ask Stingo). Fontaine Pajot make very nice looking boats, but IMHO they are too lightly built for heavy use. Leopard tend to have too low a bridgedeck and can slam. The American built Manta has good reviews. The Lagoon boats are good average workhorse, but I do not like their style.
If money is no object, consider a Gunship, then enjoy passing your old cronies in their motorboats, while you just cruise under sail power! (not for the faint hearted)
Gludy
Well-Known Member
I am now looking at the BroadBlue 435 - although the Broadblue 500 seems as it it may be a stunner.
Talbot
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I am now looking at the BroadBlue 435 - although the Broadblue 500 seems as it it may be a stunner.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ask for test sails!
I am now looking at the BroadBlue 435 - although the Broadblue 500 seems as it it may be a stunner.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ask for test sails!
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Yes I will do that with any boat.
Is there a reason why you made that comment on the Broadblue in particular?
Is there a reason why you made that comment on the Broadblue in particular?
Talbot
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Yes I will do that with any boat.
Is there a reason why you made that comment on the Broadblue in particular?
[/ QUOTE ]
I was merely responding to your comment on the 435 and 50. However, My own list of desirables in order of priority
Privilege 395
BroadBlue 385
Prout Escale (39 ft)
Which are all in inverse order to cost.
BoatMike has some first hand experience of a 40ft BroadBlue, IMHO they are a worthy successor to the Prouts, with a lot of effort put in to removing the worst design features, whilst keeping the better ones.
The Privilege tends to be a bit solid, but I prefer that to an ocean greyhound that is then screwed by having cruising weight added.
Yes I will do that with any boat.
Is there a reason why you made that comment on the Broadblue in particular?
[/ QUOTE ]
I was merely responding to your comment on the 435 and 50. However, My own list of desirables in order of priority
Privilege 395
BroadBlue 385
Prout Escale (39 ft)
Which are all in inverse order to cost.
BoatMike has some first hand experience of a 40ft BroadBlue, IMHO they are a worthy successor to the Prouts, with a lot of effort put in to removing the worst design features, whilst keeping the better ones.
The Privilege tends to be a bit solid, but I prefer that to an ocean greyhound that is then screwed by having cruising weight added.
whipper_snapper
Well-Known Member
It's a hard question as it is put. IMO the motion of a cat is harder to get used to and less predictable. After 6 weeks at sea, we were still stumbling about on a cat in a way that really surprised me. After just a few hours on a monohull you seem to get the feel and adjust to it.
However, a stumble on a cat with a foredeck like a football pitch is not a problem! Overall, I find a cat far easier and less tiring than a monohull, because there is space to work and you are not constantly fighting to stay upright.
However, a stumble on a cat with a foredeck like a football pitch is not a problem! Overall, I find a cat far easier and less tiring than a monohull, because there is space to work and you are not constantly fighting to stay upright.
captainslarty
N/A
You need to sail, generally, first.. get some time in.
without it you are pissing against the wind.
Your 60 foot gas guzzler may be ok, but you say the little woman dont like it. ???
AND, you had stabalisers on it.. thats as good as it gets..
Trade her in for a newer model or forget the whole thing really.. if you want to sail upright, stick to lake solent (OR indeed, the river windfermere)
You seem to want LARGE.. for 'Luxury" hmmmmm. dont equate dude.. dont equate..
When you break an arm (Across the HUGE cockpit - with no sensible hand holds) BUT - a walk in shower - and a 'NICE" painting of a dolphin.. and a 'NICE' double bed that you cant possibly sleep in at sea - and .. the 'nice' patio .. that the removable teak finish (Boaty) furniture falls off of !... AND THE 'NICE' Whee for the wee one.. to turn porty starboardy.. weeee heeee - lefty righty.... and, and ... and..............
hmmm.. maybe buy a few more PBO's - oh sorry, not your demographic - yachting world.. hmm thats better...
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeex Chrzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Clueless but doshed - and, to be fair !.. thats all you need... NOT... !... sad FW !!! sad, sad ,sad WS
Unfreakin'believable.. but, so true of real attempted life.. another one for the 1 year - had enough - brigade - I coudnt buy my happiness.. so its THEM at fault.. I came here with DOSH.. but they didnt understand... - all I want is to buy into the 'dream'.. dont care about the mooring fees - I got dosh ?? did I tell you - or intimate it (That I have dosh) ??.. yes ??. oh, ok.... well I wanna be 'free' to sail on the seven seas.. yes, let it be true.. oh yes... I can perhaps cope with a shite 40 footer..... but hey.. I had 60 foot before.. couldnt afford it (Story of my life) but hey again...
Anyways where was I (Did I tell you I got DOSH ?) - err well sorry, I may have done..
Any way way way again.. I want to be able to step out of the double wide drive to my detached abode.. and sail the thing.. dont want the nasty common courses that the normal people take (Cos I is SUPERIOR) so I just want a quick ten minutes to show me which button to press, for sail, ropw, and emergency..
My insurance will pay for anything so ?? WHICH life raft is good - needs to accomodate a baby grand.. and her personal yoga freak (Hee hee - I KNOW they ONLY DO yoga.. call me silly ???
She is not interested in my extension.. really. SO I gonna buy it anyway..
\What does the pointy uppy thing do in relation to the pointy outy thing.. and JJEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ _ Where DID that cloth come from.. ridiculous....
FREE !! FREE !!.. I just realised.. I CAN sail for FREE !.. FREE I TELL ya.. freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Humph .. right, yes.. so, again.. my PR man said I should lower myself to you masses as I OOULD be making a big image mistake... so, here I am - open armed - and open wallet..
ALSO !.. I have 7 nmea thingies.. can I just put all wires into a terminal block - good word eh ?? termiNAL BLOCKY.. learnt it from some low income types.. see. I IS the MAN!
The blooms in April on the Isles of Scilly are to be seen to be believed... a true cameraless picture of life as it really happens....
Ah.. Blisssss.. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
without it you are pissing against the wind.
Your 60 foot gas guzzler may be ok, but you say the little woman dont like it. ???
AND, you had stabalisers on it.. thats as good as it gets..
Trade her in for a newer model or forget the whole thing really.. if you want to sail upright, stick to lake solent (OR indeed, the river windfermere)
You seem to want LARGE.. for 'Luxury" hmmmmm. dont equate dude.. dont equate..
When you break an arm (Across the HUGE cockpit - with no sensible hand holds) BUT - a walk in shower - and a 'NICE" painting of a dolphin.. and a 'NICE' double bed that you cant possibly sleep in at sea - and .. the 'nice' patio .. that the removable teak finish (Boaty) furniture falls off of !... AND THE 'NICE' Whee for the wee one.. to turn porty starboardy.. weeee heeee - lefty righty.... and, and ... and..............
hmmm.. maybe buy a few more PBO's - oh sorry, not your demographic - yachting world.. hmm thats better...
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeex Chrzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Clueless but doshed - and, to be fair !.. thats all you need... NOT... !... sad FW !!! sad, sad ,sad WS
Unfreakin'believable.. but, so true of real attempted life.. another one for the 1 year - had enough - brigade - I coudnt buy my happiness.. so its THEM at fault.. I came here with DOSH.. but they didnt understand... - all I want is to buy into the 'dream'.. dont care about the mooring fees - I got dosh ?? did I tell you - or intimate it (That I have dosh) ??.. yes ??. oh, ok.... well I wanna be 'free' to sail on the seven seas.. yes, let it be true.. oh yes... I can perhaps cope with a shite 40 footer..... but hey.. I had 60 foot before.. couldnt afford it (Story of my life) but hey again...
Anyways where was I (Did I tell you I got DOSH ?) - err well sorry, I may have done..
Any way way way again.. I want to be able to step out of the double wide drive to my detached abode.. and sail the thing.. dont want the nasty common courses that the normal people take (Cos I is SUPERIOR) so I just want a quick ten minutes to show me which button to press, for sail, ropw, and emergency..
My insurance will pay for anything so ?? WHICH life raft is good - needs to accomodate a baby grand.. and her personal yoga freak (Hee hee - I KNOW they ONLY DO yoga.. call me silly ???
She is not interested in my extension.. really. SO I gonna buy it anyway..
\What does the pointy uppy thing do in relation to the pointy outy thing.. and JJEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ _ Where DID that cloth come from.. ridiculous....
FREE !! FREE !!.. I just realised.. I CAN sail for FREE !.. FREE I TELL ya.. freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Humph .. right, yes.. so, again.. my PR man said I should lower myself to you masses as I OOULD be making a big image mistake... so, here I am - open armed - and open wallet..
ALSO !.. I have 7 nmea thingies.. can I just put all wires into a terminal block - good word eh ?? termiNAL BLOCKY.. learnt it from some low income types.. see. I IS the MAN!
The blooms in April on the Isles of Scilly are to be seen to be believed... a true cameraless picture of life as it really happens....
Ah.. Blisssss.. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Gludy
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the contributions although I did not understand much of the rambling in the last one which seemed to hide some issues.
Regarding the list of boats - why do you like the prestige so much?
I think a 50 foot 28 beam boat may be pretty unusual in UK waters and there seem to be some serious drawbacks - pity because its has a cruising speed under power of about 12 knots.
I do intend to spend a fair amount of time going right around the UK but then also a fair amount of time in blue water cruising.
I am reading all the books and info I can get my hands on but the advice being given is influencing me the most. Still no idea where I will end up though, I suppose I am trying to be a decadent sailor /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Regarding the list of boats - why do you like the prestige so much?
I think a 50 foot 28 beam boat may be pretty unusual in UK waters and there seem to be some serious drawbacks - pity because its has a cruising speed under power of about 12 knots.
I do intend to spend a fair amount of time going right around the UK but then also a fair amount of time in blue water cruising.
I am reading all the books and info I can get my hands on but the advice being given is influencing me the most. Still no idea where I will end up though, I suppose I am trying to be a decadent sailor /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Talbot
Well-Known Member
I believe the build quality of the Privilege is a bit better, and I like the look of them a little more, though to be fair I have not seen the new 435.. Not much in it really. BB will allow you to customise as well. Not a big difference in money, but BB is slightly cheaper - but it is a bit smaller. With my luck at the moment when I am ready to buy I will just about afford a Peddalo.
