cat amongst the pigeons

bazobeleza

bazobeleza

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Just what is a classic boat? if the answer is a wooden one then why is this forum not called the wooden boat forum.

Classic cars include Lotus cars (plastic) not just tin ones, Classic aircraft include metal ones not just cloth, stick and string ones yet classic boats seem to have the 'if its not built from the remains of a tree it doesnt count' mentality or am I in error here, I wonder as I detect a distinct anti plastic feeling here yet new built boats in timber seem o be applauded.
 
Yes you are in error here, and we have done this one just recently /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
You can call whatever you like a 'classic'. Those in the know, know. Those not in the know, don't.

It is just a matter of taste and style. You either have it or you do not. Those with wooden boats do, those who do not, don't.

Simple really.
 
[ QUOTE ]
You can call whatever you like a 'classic'. Those in the know, know. Those not in the know, don't.

It is just a matter of taste and style. You either have it or you do not. Those with wooden boats do, those who do not, don't.

Simple really.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh you are a bad, bad man! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Hint

"...then why is this forum not called the wooden boat forum."

'Cos the magazine is called 'Classic Boat'?

Donald
 
Re: Hint

I think they tend to be mainly wood because wood is the "classic" boat building material. That doesn't necessarily mean other materials can't be classic, just that your boat has a headstart in the classic stakes if it is built of wood.

Also wooden boats by and large have inately beautiful lines, because of the limitations of the medium - wood will only twist or bend so much, and the result is always a nice graceful curve.
Plastic and to some extent ply can do anything, so it either has to mimic wooden shapes and merely be a pastiche, or do something really imaginative and innovative. Mass market plastic boats are never therefore going to be classics.
So a mass market rowing boat from 1900, if it survives, can't help being a classic because it has natural elegance and craftsmanship.
 
Re: Hint

"Mass market plastic boats are never therefore going to be classics."
Disagree, many of them are regarded as classics, and survive for that very reason: Nicholsons, Contessa 32's and suchlike are very much 'classics' of their kind.
 
Re: Hint

One could argue that if a boat has not been lofted out, it can't be a classic as it does not have its own lines. Hence the Nicholsons, Contessas etc in GRP are copies, reproductions or even - forgeries!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: Hint

classic boat = a big hole in the water the size of which is proportional to the exponential rise in costs in trying to keep the hole in the water from getting any bigger

or anything without white plastic cushions

or anything with a toilet that makes you nervous
 
Re: Hint

The Pearson Triton and Vanguard are made of glass and are beautiful (probably because of the era they are designed). In New Zealand, Townsons and Davidsons also have great lines. It's all about grace, and I suppose as far as lines are concerned, age. There is a great site somewhere which deals in US fibreglass speedboats which have all the hallmarks of the 57 chev with fins. They're awesome! Most plastic boats (and not a few wooden ones), are just plain ugly.
 
Re: Hint

So just because a boat has been produced in bulk, it cant be a classic? What about the huge number of wooden Folkboats for a start. All built to the same design. One design Classes make a virtue of producing identical boats - X Boats, SCOD, Dragon - the list is endless!
 
Re: Hint

Who mentioned anything about 'bulk' or mass production disqualifying a design as a classic? I didn't.

I regard my own boat design as a classic but there have been over 200 built in wood in numerous yards all over the world over a period of 70 years. The later, GRP hulls I regard as 'copies' of a classic design. Mass production has nothing to do with it. The aesthetics of the lines, does. A fair line is a beautiful thing, a mould is a mould.
 
Re: Hint

[ QUOTE ]
So just because a boat has been produced in bulk, it cant be a classic? What about the huge number of wooden Folkboats for a start. All built to the same design. One design Classes make a virtue of producing identical boats - X Boats, SCOD, Dragon - the list is endless!

[/ QUOTE ]
Well of course there are Folkboats and Folkboats. I would say that any clinker built Folkboat was automatically a classic, one built out of plastic was definitely not and that there would be lots of individual cases to consider.

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

On the other hand I think there are some boats built from stuff like steel and aluminium that could qualify for classic status.
 
Re: Hint

"A fair line is a beautiful thing, a mould is a mould"

Yes, but the moulds are not necessarily copies of earlier wooden boats. There are of course moulds taken from original wooden hulls, but also the vast majority of production moulded boats were drawn to an original design. My Trident is not a copy of anything, it is one of a series of boats built to a specific and original design. They happen to have been designed to be built in GRP. I would not necesarily claim it as a 'classic' although she does have very sweet and traditional lines, and is, IMHO every bit as pretty as many wooden boats.

I agree that the perfection of shape which developed from the use of traditional materials gives a result very pleasing to the eye, but a modern build can be just as good . The fact that modern yacht designers have got bogged down in producing boats that have about as much aesthetic quality as a Tesco sandwich box doesnt disqualify GRP as a boat building medium. It doesnt have to be that way, and over the years some very fine original designs have appeared which IMHO well qualify as 'classics' of their kind.
 
Re: Hint

I think the use of the qualifier "of their kind" suggests a certain defensiveness, which would repay probing further.
So there are really two categories - "classics", and "classics of their kind"?
 
Re: Hint

"I think the use of the qualifier "of their kind" suggests a certain defensiveness, "

No it doesn't!

There is no clear definition of a 'classic boat' otherwise this forum would have missed out on a great long standing debate of which this thread is the latest chapter.

My view is that the term 'classic' is not limited to any one type or construction of boat. There are classic yachts of different kinds - plastic, wood, steel, plywood, even ferro! I would never compare a classic plywood design such as Robert Tuckers Caprice of Shrimpy fame, with for example his GRP Corribee mk2 which is also a classic of its kind. Neither compares with a wooden folkboat Vs a Contessa 26, also potentially classics 'of their kind'. Mobo's have the same definitions: a wooden Osborne cannot be compared with the a 'Nelson' motor launch, but both are regarded as classic designs.

OK?
 
Re: Hint

Now, Now Clifford.............Play nice! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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