Carpet capers

[MagicalArmchair]

My son became one over the weekend and enjoys crawling around, eating charts, that sort of thing, so it only seems fair to put down some carpet for him to crawl on (not to mention to keep the skippers feet nice and warm when getting up in the middle of the night). I have read through some very interesting forum posts that have concluded with:

• Synthetic fiber carpet only, natural fibers encourage mold
• Bathroom off-cuts are fine
• Avoid gluing directly to the GRP
• Create a paper 'template' using rolls of backing paper!

I am thinking rubber backed bathroom carpet appears to be my best (most cost effective) bet? Would you agree? What would be the best method of affixing it down? I was thinking velcro around the edges, to allow it to be taken up if we get in the 'rough stuff' (although she does stay very dry below), and to allow for it to be easily replaced when it dies a death. Any better ideas? Being keel stepped, water tends to run down the mast and gather around the the foot of the mast before running into the bilge, so it will be often wet in that area (unless, on a separate note, anyone has any good ideas on how to stop water running down inside my mast! ).

Ta,

Mark
www.albinballad.co.uk

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Synthetic carpet is horrible stuff. Wouldn't have it in my house or my boat.

If the boat is dry below there is no reason not to have a wool mix as we did.

Foxy, or similar underlay will stop it from slipping around and requires no fixings. Ours didn't even go all the way to the sole board edges.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

When we needed to replace carpeting on our Moody 31, we went into a local carpet fitter and described our requirements. He strongly recommended using what he referred to as "glue backed" carpet. That doesn't mean sticky backed carpet! It means that the backing material is thin and flexible, so it will take up the compound curves that are common in boats. It is also easy to cut to shape accurately and cleanly. Finally, it is waterproof. You'll probably have to get it from a carpet contracter - it is usually used for commercial work rather than domestic jobs. The good news is that you may well be able to get an offcut that is ample for your purposes; we did and still have some in the garage! It is also hard wearing; there's no sign of wear on ours.

I think you are right to be thinking of synthetic materials; areas such as the bottom of the companionway will certainly get wet from dripping oilskins and so on even if the boat is a dry as a whistle. I certainly wouldn't want anything with an absorbent backing, as it would stay wet if it got wet.

Of course, if you are carpeting nice flat areas there may be no need to stick the carpet down. We were laying carpet on the inside of the hull in places, and used double-sided carpet tape to hold it down, again on the advice of the same carpet fitter. That has held up for two years so far, with no sign of problems.

We found the best advice was from a small local carpet supplier who had his own shop and did his own fitting. Carpet Warehouse and similar don't do their own fitting, and tend to look at you a bit nonplussed when you describe your needs!

 

[neil1967]

water down inside of mast

We too have a keel stepped mast, which acts a a conduit for a lot of rain water. I have read that one solution is to somehow insert a balloon into the mast slightly above deck level, inflate it, and then pour a sealant on top - perhaps a thin epoxy. You then need to drill a small hole in the mast just above where the sealant has set to let the water out. I will be trying a variant of this shortly - our mast has in mast furling so it should be easy to get the balloon in to the mast and no need to drill a hole, as the water will come out of the slot. I'm just deliberating over what sealant to use - I'm slightly concerned that epoxy will be too rigid and will crack when the mast flexs.

As far as carpet goes, we had some horrible stuff stuck to the saloon sole that was disintergrating. We have removed it and just use some small rugs when not underway.

Neil

 

[Ripster]

I did our new boat a similar way to the picture. Bought the carpet (I used a hard wearing felt back) cut it out by using templates including any blige access ports. Got the edge done by a rug edging specialist locally (only about a quid a mtr) and then used pop studs to stop it moving about and avoid any glue on the wood floor. It does not move, comes up in an instant, is now easy to remake (as I have the patterns) and is relative cheap to replace - simples. I was warned off wool (I agree its nicer) as it can shrink (I was told) if it gets a good soaking, so mine is synthetic.

Synthetic carpet is horrible stuff. Wouldn't have it in my house or my boat.

If the boat is dry below there is no reason not to have a wool mix as we did.

Foxy, or similar underlay will stop it from slipping around and requires no fixings. Ours didn't even go all the way to the sole board edges.

 

[Stemar]

I have carpet tiles. I only have a little boat, so the saloon walkway is one tile wide and the dinette about 2 wide. A bit of double sided tape means they don't slip around and keeps them in close contact.

They have the advantage that it's easy to replace one or two tiles in the event of a spill causing a stain. Also, you only have to cut one tile to size at a time and it's a lot less waste if, like me, you're a bit hamfisted when marking out.

 

[charles_reed]

I have carpet tiles. I only have a little boat, so the saloon walkway is one tile wide and the dinette about 2 wide. A bit of double sided tape means they don't slip around and keeps them in close contact.

They have the advantage that it's easy to replace one or two tiles in the event of a spill causing a stain. Also, you only have to cut one tile to size at a time and it's a lot less waste if, like me, you're a bit hamfisted when marking out.

I too ended up with carpet tiles, after the fitted carpet that came with the boat nearly killed a couple of people when beating.
The only problem is that they "bleed" if you get any diesel into the bilge water.

I buy Heuga remainders from JLP, about £2 a tile and I only need 8 for the whole saloon. Galley area, forecabin and aft cabin are cork-tiled and stuck to the floor-boards.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I have carpet tiles. I only have a little boat, so the saloon walkway is one tile wide and the dinette about 2 wide. A bit of double sided tape means they don't slip around and keeps them in close contact.

They have the advantage that it's easy to replace one or two tiles in the event of a spill causing a stain. Also, you only have to cut one tile to size at a time and it's a lot less waste if, like me, you're a bit hamfisted when marking out.

Probably OK if the are is flat or nearly so, but they aren't flexible enough to cover a curve.

 

[Stemar]

My sole has a steady curve in the long direction and rounded edges on the sides. They seem to have settled down into it pretty well, but I agree that they generally do better on flat or single curvature surface. A severe double curvature would be a problem, but I reckon that would apply to most floor carpet.

 

[prv]

For what it's worth, Kindred Spirit has a rectangular sole, no funny shapes, about 200x60cm. I was able to find a rubber-backed cotton-faced indoor doormat that fitted perfectly into the space, and matched the cushions too. Grips the sole tenaciously, comfy on bare feet, good at dealing with water and dirt (being a doormat) and could be periodically taken out and washed with a hose and deck-scrubber on the pontoon. Probably not suitable for the OP, but may inspire anyone with smaller boats reading the thread.

The new boat has plastic-laminate "teak and holly" which will probably be staying as it is.

Pete

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Gosh, thanks for all of the helpful advice and recounting your own efforts. My sole slopes up to port and starboard, so I think the carpet tiles would be a challenge. Ex-SolentBoy, I'm intrigued by the foxi underlay (foxi underlay), as it means I will be easily able to take up the carpet - I'm a bit worried that on a beat it will become a bit lethal though - does it perform even at 45 degrees?? I would be worried about it soaking up the water from all those dripping oilies as well.

AntarcticPilot, I'll have a chat to our local carpet company and ask them about glue backed carpet. I'm a bit worried about using double sided carpet tape as I will be taking the carpet up to get into the bilge, change the oil in the engine when I service it and that sort of thing - does it lose its 'stick' or do you just reapply and off you go?

neil1967, my fathers a shipwright, and he recommended a similar solution but with squirty foam - no balloon required, however he did warn against it as he said with the best will in the world, you could get water collecting just below where you drill the drain hole leading to corrosion of your mast. He told me to be grateful it was water in the bilge and not collecting in your mast .

Ripster, how did you attach the other half of the stud (half of the stud) to the sole?

Once again, thanks for the response.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

AntarcticPilot, I'll have a chat to our local carpet company and ask them about glue backed carpet. I'm a bit worried about using double sided carpet tape as I will be taking the carpet up to get into the bilge, change the oil in the engine when I service it and that sort of thing - does it lose its 'stick' or do you just reapply and off you go?

The double sided carpet tape is definitely not removeable on an everyday basis - it's means for a permanent job. Could youu apply carpet in degments to match the panels to get at the bilge?

I'd find a small contractor type of company, rather than a big retailer; the contractor will have in-house knowledge whereas the big retailer tends to contract out the fitting - and the guys who do the fitting aren't in the shop anyway!

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

The foxy stuff does not slip at a big angle of heel as long as it is a big piece so you should avoid cutting the carpet into lots of small sections.

Easy to buy a little bit. Take it home and mock up the angle. You will be very surprised. After a while you literally have to peel it away from the floor. You might as well try it. No tape, no stud etc. we lifted our carpet all the time to access the engine. The foxy stays stuck to the carpet so it was really easy to reposition. Just make sure the sole boards are clean to start off. I wiped ours with meths to make sure no grease or wax.

 

[Ripster]

Ripster, how did you attach the other half of the stud (half of the stud) to the sole?

.

I used regular stainless steel studs as I have used them effectively before and know they hold and do not pull out. They have to be pushed through the carpet and pinched together. Easy enough to do, but you need the little punching tools to make a neat job of putting the underside ring on. The retaining studs are just screwed to the floor with SS self tapper. Its basically the same as securing canvas, but you use slightly longer top studs to take account of the carpet thickness. I looked at the ones you have found, but have not tried these for strength. My objective was/is to be able to remove/replace all the carpets for easy cleaning/changing or if they got wet and if maintenance is required - or if SWMBO decides she wants a different colour for next season!

 

[Laurin]

Am I the only person here who thinks carpet for a 1 year old is a crazy idea. Does he feed himself yet? Are you ever anticipating him eating whilst down below? The amount of food that ends up on our cabin floor I would hate to have to clean out of a carpet. Also toy cars don't roll nearly as well on carpet as on a wooden floor! I won't even begin to mention the issues you could have when it comes to potty training!

Karen (mother of 2 boat babies)

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Hello Karen,

Am I the only person here who thinks carpet for a 1 year old is a crazy idea. Does he feed himself yet? Are you ever anticipating him eating whilst down below? The amount of food that ends up on our cabin floor I would hate to have to clean out of a carpet. Also toy cars don't roll nearly as well on carpet as on a wooden floor! I won't even begin to mention the issues you could have when it comes to potty training!

Karen (mother of 2 boat babies)

What a spectacular point, in truth, it was more the skippers feet that was driving the carpet, however, judging that we are about to start Thomas self feeding, I would suggest any carpet would be quite short lived and get messy pretty quickly! And heaven forbid when potty training begins! Project mothballed in that case, the slipper option it is 'till the 'crew' can start pulling ropes and making less of a mess. A bit off topic, any top boat baby tips? We went away for a week last year when he was four months, and that was easy (ish) as he didn't move - this year I fear will be more challenging!

Ta,

Mark

 

[Laurin]

So, babies on board.

We used a strap system down below to strap in the infant carrier car seat, but facing us. This was our bomb proof seat for baby just in case we got caught out in something rough, and for sleeping on passage in anything other than flat calm conditions. We had a maxi cosi cabriofix which is one of the larger ones and both ours were happily in then until about 20 months.

On deck and for eating down below we had something similar to this:

Comes with lots of straps to attach to a chair but we used them underneath the wooden slats in the cockpit and underneath bunk cushion down below. Good place to put them safe ish on deck without having to have the bulk of a car seat in the cockpit. Get one with a removable tray and optional/no shoulder straps and they can sit in it with lifejacket on.

Alternatively pad out cockpit floor with playmat and cushions and put washboards in hatch for a nice little playpen.

We rigged netting at the entrance to the forepeak as the bunk comes right up to the door and this was a good downstairs playpen if they wanted to be down below on passage. Netting rigged on bunk sides to stop escapees overnight.

We have netting round the whole boat, and also our rules regarding lifejackets are as follows.
Alongside they can go in the cockpit without lifejacket (big deep safe center cockpit!) but if they want to go outside cockpit then an adult must be on deck and they must have lifejacket on.

Under way, lifejacket on at all times up on deck (except baby at mealtimes when it would restrict being able to feed herself). Clip on for going out of cockpit.

Give them jobs as soon as possible: First jobs were looking for water coming out of exhaust, pumping bilges (they love this). Taking instrument covers off and putting away.

We have a tub of "scoobie snacks" for when we are entering a marina/if they get really hungry under way. Basically cherios, raisins, popcorn, maybe a few yoghurt or choc coated raisins if they are lucky. Nothing worse than them crying as you are concentrating on coming alongside. They both have their "special place" where they sit when we are coming into a marina. If you are not 100% sure they will not move from their "special place" then clip them on so they can't. (Learned this the hard way last year when AJ thought he would "help" by putting the throttle in full forward while we were tieing up).

I was advised that one hour of sailing for each year old they are is enough.... this is pretty accurate unless you can get them to sleep a lot of the passage, though if you do this and sail overnight remember they will then be awake when you want to catch up on sleep! If you sail for a long day, then it is best to plan a day ashore for the next day.

Don't underestimate how exciting they find an inflatable tender. Highlight of our blackwater cruise last year was taking the rubber dinghy up the canal from Heybridge to do our shopping at Tesco.

Duplo is a great boat toy.

I considered but didn't get round to fitting a board which goes over the bottom two steps up into the cockpit so that they couldn't start climbing if my back was turned.

Hope this helps....

Looked at your website... think you're East Coast Based.... head on over to the east coast forum... we're quite friendly over there!

 

[prv]

I don't have kids, but for some reason have ended up with a copy of Kids in the Cockpit by Jill Dickin Schinas. Certainly seems like a fount of useful and practical information, like Laurin's excellent post above but in full-length book form

Pete

 

[AntarcticPilot]

So, babies on board.

SNIP

All excellent advice, but I'd emphasize one point hidden in it - don't underestimate their mobility! It's a long time ago now, but we had a heart-stopping moment with my younger child. Went into her room, where she'd been in her cot, and there was no sign of her. Looked around - we knew she could get out of her cot - but she was nowhere in sight. Then we heard a little giggle. Looked up - and she was on top of the wardrobe! She'd climbed from her cot to a dressing table, and from there to the top of the wardrobe. She was 2 or less at the time!

At this stage, their ability to move around and climb is changing rapidly, and they are VERY adventurous; they want to move around, and constantly try new ways of getting around. It isn't really fair to restrict their mobility for long periods, either - it is an essential part of their physical development.

I can't suggest how this translates to a sailing environment, as we didn't sail at the time. But I do think that you need to consider the balance between restraint and mobility. Of course, there willl be times when you need to know that the child is securely fastened down, such as at the start and end of a trip. But that can't be all the time, or even long periods (except in an emergency).

 

[MagicalArmchair]

So, babies on board....
....
.... Looked at your website... think you're East Coast Based.... head on over to the east coast forum... we're quite friendly over there!

Thanks Karen, that's very helpful advice indeed (to which my wife knowingly agreed with, telling me she too thought I was being a bit optimistic putting carpet down). Our the 'crew' has started to pull himself up and wandering around, so there will be all sorts of trouble he will be able to get in when on board as you quite rightly said AntarcticPilot (is your daughter still so athletic now??).

What netting did you use for the forepeak and how did you affix it? I am sure Thomas will be throwing himself 'banzai' style at it, so I want it as tight and bullet proof as I can make it! I will head over to the east coast forum and have a poke around!

With regards to maximum sailing times, we have a bit of an issue in that we are on the Medway, meaning that to go anywhere its eight hours . He managed it when he was four months old, so I'm sure he'll manage it now so long as we choose our conditions carefully. If you have any photos of your set up, I would be very grateful to see them. Thanks again.