Cardinals and big yellow buoy half way across North Sea

[jimi]

Sailing from Lowestoft to IJmuiden we encountered an area near the start of the DW routes with 4 cardinals and a big yellow buoy in the middle. Came as bit of a surprise as there was no shipping about and we were sheltering under the sprayhood. Nothing on charts (and I did have a recent one with the latest updates!) and cant seem to find anything. Anyone any wiser than me on this?

 

[tillergirl]

No current UK NtoM about it, no Trinity House about it, no current RNW, no recent Belgium NtoM and the links to each NtoM on the Dutch web site are currently broken.

Which end of the DW route? 4 cadinals and a yellow in the middle 'reeks' of summat!

 

[jimi]

The charts are on the boat at the moment, however, it was about 8 miles or so south of the direct line between Lowestoft to IJmuiden and between 1/3 and 1/2 way across just before the unexploded ordinance stuff marked on the chart. Just to south and west of DW lanes. The buoys looked very new indeed. I was using Imray C25 (latest edition) and there's nothing in the chart corrections.

 

[tillergirl]

The answer might be simples. 8 miles south of the direct line, a third of a mile approx. out from Lowestoft is the top of the East Anglia 1 windfarm site. There is a big oval of cardinals (an oval 11nm (north and south) x 5nm (east to west). Have a look at week 3 in the chronological list at: http://www.crossingthethamesestuary.com/page9.html (scroll down to it). There has been a thorough survey in the site and obviously the power cable route and their web site lists 36 confirmed unexploded ordnance which it is being removed stage by stage.

The NtoM is still a preliminary notice. You can download my image - and of course the official NtM.

My best guess at the moment.

 

[Daverw]

The charts are on the boat at the moment, however, it was about 8 miles or so south of the direct line between Lowestoft to IJmuiden and between 1/3 and 1/2 way across just before the unexploded ordinance stuff marked on the chart. Just to south and west of DW lanes. The buoys looked very new indeed. I was using Imray C25 (latest edition) and there's nothing in the chart corrections.

We crossed a few weeks ago and saw the same with nothing on charts, never did find out what they were but did get called by a guard boat some way off though and he could not hear us reply to his instructions, kept giving me his lat long but single handed and not able to write down, why do guard boats give lat long so fast and not repeat it. He kept telling me to change course but did not tell me which way.

 

[tillergirl]

I note there was another NtM listing obstructions in and around the wind farm area. See Week 18 scrolling down http://www.crossingthethamesestuary.com/page9.html . The obstructions could be the unexploded ordnance or something else and could be or could not be lifted. In the London Array area, they were not allowed just to remove every 'obstruction' because it might have been a historical artifact, war grave etc. Was the Guard Boat correctly warning Daverw or were they just throwing their weight around. The Exclusion rules are clear:

Safety Zones

The following safety zones are in place

A 500 metres safety zone around the location of each turbine, met mast, substation or their foundations comprising the East Anglia ONE Offshore Wind Farm whilst work is being performed, as indicated by the presence of construction vessels.
A 50 metre safety zone surrounding each turbine, met mast, substation or their foundations comprising the East Anglia ONE Offshore Wind Farm whilst work is not ongoing on that turbine, met mast, substation or their foundations.

But of course if there are diving or other underwater works in progress, a warning will be valid. However the Wind Farm area is said (they say) to cover 300 sq km so they have no right to exclude leisure craft except where necessary.

I think some feedback to the Guard Boat could be valid. Daverw's point is quite right: some practical guidance from the Guard Boat on which way to change course (given that the area marked by the construction site per se is not excluded) is important and just common sense. Also just squirting lat/long is ridiculous. They have no idea whether some one has a chart plotter, just one person etc. And if the weather is bad? I would have thought it was important for the Guard Boat to be briefed to appreciate the other vessel's point of view and point of reference. I would expect the crew of a Guard Boat that has been out there since April must be enormously bored and in desperate need to do something.

 

[Daverw]

I note there was another NtM listing obstructions in and around the wind farm area. See Week 18 scrolling down http://www.crossingthethamesestuary.com/page9.html . The obstructions could be the unexploded ordnance or something else and could be or could not be lifted. In the London Array area, they were not allowed just to remove every 'obstruction' because it might have been a historical artifact, war grave etc. Was the Guard Boat correctly warning Daverw or were they just throwing their weight around. The Exclusion rules are clear:

Safety Zones

The following safety zones are in place

A 500 metres safety zone around the location of each turbine, met mast, substation or their foundations comprising the East Anglia ONE Offshore Wind Farm whilst work is being performed, as indicated by the presence of construction vessels.
A 50 metre safety zone surrounding each turbine, met mast, substation or their foundations comprising the East Anglia ONE Offshore Wind Farm whilst work is not ongoing on that turbine, met mast, substation or their foundations.

But of course if there are diving or other underwater works in progress, a warning will be valid. However the Wind Farm area is said (they say) to cover 300 sq km so they have no right to exclude leisure craft except where necessary.

I think some feedback to the Guard Boat could be valid. Daverw's point is quite right: some practical guidance from the Guard Boat on which way to change course (given that the area marked by the construction site per se is not excluded) is important and just common sense. Also just squirting lat/long is ridiculous. They have no idea whether some one has a chart plotter, just one person etc. And if the weather is bad? I would have thought it was important for the Guard Boat to be briefed to appreciate the other vessel's point of view and point of reference. I would expect the crew of a Guard Boat that has been out there since April must be enormously bored and in desperate need to do something.

Just to add, they called me by name as we have AIS but I could not find them on AIS, it was 01:30 in the morning and fully dark, each t8me I called them back they responded with my signal not clear so eventually I gave up and changed course 270 from my original on the assumption it would take me away, as the signal appeared to be getting weaker, after about an hour they gave up calling me or I was out of VHF range

 

[jimi]

Found myself in the middle of this area again last night. Coming from the east from IJmuiden to Harwich its precisely when you end up after crossing the DW route having just missed the TSS. IT was'nt marked at all well from the east I found myself at dusk/in the dark negotiating half built structures with dim orange lights having seen no warning cardinals.... and it does cover a large area in pretty deep water.

 

[jimi]

I'm thinking that in bad weather at night these windfarms in deep water are a disaster waiting to happen to boats transiting the area. Or is that being unduly pessimistic? I'm normally a fan of renewable energy but there's plenty of other areas which would be more suitable (likewise these solar farms using up good arable land).

 

[photodog]

I'm thinking that in bad weather at night these windfarms in deep water are a disaster waiting to happen to boats transiting the area. Or is that being unduly pessimistic? I'm normally a fan of renewable energy but there's plenty of other areas which would be more suitable (likewise these solar farms using up good arable land).

People would rather iPads than potatoes.

 

[Pye_End]

Found myself in the middle of this area again last night. Coming from the east from IJmuiden to Harwich its precisely when you end up after crossing the DW route having just missed the TSS. IT was'nt marked at all well from the east I found myself at dusk/in the dark negotiating half built structures with dim orange lights having seen no warning cardinals.... and it does cover a large area in pretty deep water.

Were they a sort of lattice construction with a bit of a platform (not round), and a dim orange light in one top corner. Not particularly high, but then again fairly substantial? Several of them not really in a line, but more orientated N-S rather than E-W. A Lattice antenna at the southern end. East and west cardinals possibly marking it - no idea if there was a N or S as it was such a big area?

We came across this this other evening too - crossed the line after sun down, but not yet dark fortunately - as you say dim yellow lights hard to make out. All rather strange. I have a photo of one which I will post once home.

 

[jimi]

Were they a sort of lattice construction with a bit of a platform (not round), and a dim orange light in one top corner. Not particularly high, but then again fairly substantial? Several of them not really in a line, but more orientated N-S rather than E-W. A Lattice antenna at the southern end. East and west cardinals possibly marking it - no idea if there was a N or S as it was such a big area?

We came across this this other evening too - crossed the line after sun down, but not yet dark fortunately - as you say dim yellow lights hard to make out. All rather strange. I have a photo of one which I will post once home.

Yep, that's the ones, and a big mast in the middle with a red light on top with a couple of flashing lights on it. I passed just to the south of the mast. All very confusing