Cardiff Bay Yacht Club Fined £40,000 and £14,400 costs!

No wonder A&E departments across the country are struggling to cope. They're flooded with people going in for trivia or to get round appointment delays at their GP's.
 
Capt Popeye said:
Yep, simple rules to accommodate simple peoples who cannot understand rational organisation in H&S matters, perhaps even life or life changing matters.
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I bet some of the girls involved capsized Oppies during their course. Would you have anyone who did that taken to hospital? It's certainly an incident/accident.

I just might ask, speculate, upon what would of happened if the RNLI had been called out and applied the RNLI rules on these matters?
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Do tell us. What are the RNLI rules on these matters?
 
penfold said:
Unfortunately the report does not clearly state it, although it is strongly implied; the report is pretty badly written generally, which is disappointing given MAIB reports are usually succinct and factual.
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A third girl, who had been sitting on the port buoyancy tube of the Tornado RIB close to the steering console, was ejected backwards out of the boat. As she was thrown overboard her legs probably struck the steering console and her head and shoulders are believed to have made contact with the starboard buoyancy tube of the Ribcraft RIB, causing her to lose consciousness for a brief period, before she fell into the water between the two boats.
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I can't see how they could have been clearer than that. It isn't implied, it states quite clearly that she briefly lost consciousness.
 
Rigger Mortice said:
I can't see how they could have been clearer than that. It isn't implied, it states quite clearly that she briefly lost consciousness.
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It is prefaced with 'believed', although the sentence structure is so terrible the exact meaning is obscure. As I said before the report is badly written.
 
Elessar said:
Originally Posted by Capt Popeye
Originally Posted by caiman View Post
In my place of work,if somebody is suspected of having had a head injury,we,as first aiders,are told to call an Ambuance/Helicopter,no exceptions.
Cheers
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Very sensible rules, if I might say so.
Patient /victim care is or should be Paramount consideration in any accidents /incidents and referrals upwards into A&E a must.
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I agree sensible rules for first aiders, as long as "any incident" is sensibly defined. To apply this when 2 doctors are there is just plain silly.
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With any training, be that the 2 day first aid course or a consultant with 10+ years of exams and assessments, one of the things you learn is the limits of what you are trained to do and what to do when these are exceeded.
Originally Posted by Capt Popeye simple rules to accommodate simple peoples
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And we simple peoples should stick by them. Let's let the well educated use their trained judgement.
 
Actually thinking about it, C'pt is right, it makes complete sense for a place of work to recommend calling an ambulance every time there is an accident.
From a medical point of view it probably makes little difference.
But from legal point of view it transfers all responsibility from the workplace.
Either to the first aider if they don't follow the advice or to the NHS if the ambulance is called.

From a medical point of view it made sense to check the girls out make sure that nothing required immediate medical attention, and tuck them up in bed to rest.

From a legal point of view it would have made sense take them all to A&E probably wait around for several hours eventually be seen by a triage nurse and a junior doctor who would have done the same checks and sent them home with advise on what to look out for.
 
Thank you :)

Just as an aside, look up profile of 'caiman' and note his employer, interesting, eh?

So what would the RNLI have done in the circumstances, if called out?
 
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If I attend an incident ashore or afloat where there is a history of unconsciousness or head injury, then that casualty will be handed over to an Ambulance/Helicopter.As a simple rule we apply 'pick them up,patch them up,and pass them on(to Ambulance/Helicopter/Coastie)'.An unconscious person in the water (whether wearing a Life Jacket,PFD or otherwise)is a strong candidate for water inhalation which can lead to serious complications many hours after the event,as well as the risk from the actual head injury itself.There are so many good reasons to pass a casualty into professional care that it's definatly worthdoing. Cheers
 
caiman said:
If I attend an incident ashore or afloat where there is a history of unconsciousness or head injury, then that casualty will be handed over to an Ambulance/Helicopter.As a simple rule we apply 'pick them up,patch them up,and pass them on(to Ambulance/Helicopter/Coastie)'.An unconscious person in the water (whether wearing a Life Jacket,PFD or otherwise)is a strong candidate for water inhalation which can lead to serious complications many hours after the event,as well as the risk from the actual head injury itself.There are so many good reasons to pass a casualty into professional care that it's definatly worthdoing. Cheers
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So if a GP and a consultant was there and they advised it was not neccessary, you would over rule their advice?
 
caiman said:
No.I would be on the radio calling for a 'Medivac'.I like to sleep at night and so take the path that places the casualty's 'care' as paramount.Cheers.
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Thanks. Could you just outline the guidance you have had which says when you follow the advice of medical staff and when you ignore it?
 
penfold said:
It is prefaced with 'believed', although the sentence structure is so terrible the exact meaning is obscure. As I said before the report is badly written.
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Blimey, I don't know how you can read that into it.
The girl got thrown out she will have been confused about exactly what happened. She will have said something along the lines of "I may have hit the tubes and I blacked out for a moment" When you are in a bump with bodies flying around different people have different recollections and the MAIB has to try to piece it all together. Odds are the wording is very precise indeed, though they will have notes and/or recordings of the interviews.

But I promised myself not to get into speculation. It's pointless.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Thanks. Could you just outline the guidance you have had which says when you follow the advice of medical staff and when you ignore it?
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I'd imagine it is whether the medical advice is present in a professional capacity or whether it is just present as a happenstance by-stander. And no doctor acting without backup can bring to bear anything like the resources of an A&E department. Frankly, I'd expect ANY medical staff to play safe and refer to A&E in the event of a major incident - and unconsciousness is a major incident.
 
Elessar-Easy,I've been doing it since 1979 when I joined the Crew so I've had a bit of practise:cool: JumbleDuck-Easy,just place the casualty's needs first,and then use common sense:cool:The pair of you-please note that I am not 'dissing' the people involved in this incident.Someone asked what the RNLI would do in a case like this,and I am replying,saying what I hope I would do in a similar incident.If you want to start dishing out stupid remarks carry on.I certainly will not be changing my 'modus operandi' on the basis of your replies,I have far too much practical real world experience.As a matter of interest,next time that you see your GP/Consultant,ask them who would they prefer to administer first aid to them if they were involved in an accident,another GP/Consultant?Or a Paramedic?Cheers
 
caiman said:
Elessar-Easy,I've been doing it since 1979 when I joined the Crew so I've had a bit of practise:cool: JumbleDuck-Easy,just place the casualty's needs first,and then use common sense:cool:The pair of you-please note that I am not 'dissing' the people involved in this incident.Someone asked what the RNLI would do in a case like this,and I am replying,saying what I hope I would do in a similar incident.If you want to start dishing out stupid remarks carry on.I certainly will not be changing my 'modus operandi' on the basis of your replies,I have far too much practical real world experience.As a matter of interest,next time that you see your GP/Consultant,ask them who would they prefer to administer first aid to them if they were involved in an accident,another GP/Consultant?Or a Paramedic?Cheers
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Thanks. It raises some interesting questions, doesn't it?

I have a loyalty card for the Sheffield Children's Hospital A&E, from the number of dented children I have taken their over the years. None of them ever seriously hurt, I'm glad to say.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Would you also ignore their advice if they said that someone should go to hospital and you didn't think it was necessary?
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I went to see my doctor last year. SWMBO said we should call an ambulance but I said no, I was going to see the quack. He saw me (immediately, no queuing) and called an ambulance. They took me to hospital but, on the way, they did say they didn't think it was necessary. (They weren't being nasty, that was just their judgement). The following week I had an operation.
It we had called the ambulance they would have said "nothing to worry about" and gone on their way. I was lucky, but give me a doctors judgement any day over that of a paramedic. (and that isn't to do paramedics down, but their training is for the acute emergency cases not the ones which are, for want of a better description, on the margin where fine clinical judgements need to be made)
 
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