Captain Sensible or what?

jimi

jimi

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Picture the scenario you are beating on port tack about to cross the path of a starboard racing vessel on a spinnaker run. By holding course you will pass just behind so all is well ... apart from the fact you''ll collapse the spinnie and lose the racing vessel valuable seconds. Do you

1)Carry on to avoid any ambiguity
2)bear away to cross in front of the racer and avoid dirtying his wind?

<hr width=100% size=1>O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
 
OUt of politeness:
-Spinakkers are quite a hassle, and do limit your manoeuvrability
-People who are raceing don't need leisurely types like me standing on.

So I tend to give them a wide berth

<hr width=100% size=1>Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
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Sorry just too clarify, in the scenario you are not the stand on boat you are the giveway and quite rightly under the CR you are fulfilling your obligations by passing behind .. but by bearing away you're acting contrary to the CR (unless you do it in plenty of time) but being nice to the racer who can just dip behind you.

<hr width=100% size=1>O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
 
I agree really, tho no doubt there will be countless forum members who will disagree and shout "rules are rules!!"

I do think it is a matter of politeness too, but also the fact that racey types normally "give in" at the last min as a matter of course, can cause alarm at the best of times, and therefor possibly accidents.

How many of us can say that if they had a Farr 50 bearing down on them at 18knots a few hundred yards away wouldn't panic unless they were in the race too??

And I agree with you too Jimi.... you must have been typing at the same time as me, only I am slower /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.quest-net.org/jamesaustin/images/Img1094.JPG>Recognise us?? </A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Neraida on 10/11/2003 09:51 (server time).</FONT></P>
 
Not being rude but you're missing the point of the post.

The point is :
If you do nothing you will pass behind but collapse the spinnie, If you alter coure to go in front you are being nice by not dirtying his air but you are adopting a more potentially dangerous course of action

<hr width=100% size=1>O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
 
I think the helmsman of the racing boat would assume the giveway vessel would follow the regs and all sorts of problems could ensue. To avoid any confusion, I'd hold my course, even if vital racing seconds might be lost by offering a bit of dirty wind. Racing boats under spinnaker also accelerate very quickly in a gust, which could cause the bearing away calculation to be a bit of a risk if you didn't actually pass ahead because the other boat's speed increased suddenly.

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Got ya. I think the only way I would approach the situation, for example in Soton Water on a sunday morning, is try to avoid the race area completely. Zefender is right, totally and without question accoring to CR. We just try and stay well out the way if water/conditions allow.

The boat in question (who might loose a couple of seconds) could apply to the racing committee (i think) for some form of "protest" to get their seconds back, however I am sure that the RSYC committee count such occurences as "part of racing". We hear many a race skipper moaning that they "got becalmed" by "x" car carrier and they "lost the race" because of it. Its all cobblers, and any good skipper can see well into the future and account for such occasions.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.quest-net.org/jamesaustin/images/Img1094.JPG>Recognise us?? </A>
 
If you are in no hurry and you want to be considerate of the racing boat, why not tack away. Then you are not in breach of the col regs and the other boat is clear about your intentions?

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I've just passed in front of a fleet coming down the North Channel of the Solent.

<hr width=100% size=1>O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
 
I agree with this. There are other variables, such as
- the relative size of the two boats, and hence the effect of our sails on their spinnaker,
- what other boats are around, which might get in the way, if crossing a fleet
- what mood I am in on the day! Sometimes I have little sympathy for racers who think they own the 'road' whereas other days I see a fleet and alter course completely at an earlier time.

<hr width=100% size=1>Real stress is when you wake up in the night and realise you haven't been to sleep yet.
 
I would do the same, ie tack away to give him clear air, if there was sea room (ie the rest of the racing fleet was not in the way). If not possible I would not go in front both for the sake of preventing confusion and also probably unless one was in a very much faster boat than the race boat, and if you are close hauled and you will normally pass astern, then if you bear off to get in front of him the chances of you passing clear ahead are nil.

John

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Its no wonder you are indecisive - judging by your profile, you've got too many hobbies and past-times to remember all their rules and etiquette correctly !

(Not to mention your confused mind, as indicated by your tact and diplomacy!)


<hr width=100% size=1>Real stress is when you wake up in the night and realise you haven't been to sleep yet.
 
The last time I raced in a saily boat must have been about 20 odd years ago. That was in a dinghy on a lake. Now that lake was used soley for dinghy racing. So my question is. Is it right in the name of safety to race stonking great yachts in a busy waterway with commercial shipping, passenger traffic and lesuire sailers around. Given that half these skippers have no regard for anything except getting to the finish line first.

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captain.gif
 
A clear, early tack should sort it without causing any grief. Only problem is that it will more than likely stick you in the way of another racer. Any ambiguity and I would hold course (harden up) if possible and pass as far behind as I could. It's difficult enough to judge on the water at times but hypothetically it's impossible. If in doubt keep well clear or stick to CRs.

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Re: mind reading

i think he will be more irate about a potential collision situation than a bit of dirty wind. its best to keep behind him as if he speeds up or you misjudge it could all go up.
this is the problem with second guessing. you could carry out the manoeuvre quite easily and safely but the other skipper thinks bloody idiot why did he chance across our front? as he may have expected you to clear his stern.
you don't know what other skipper is thinking or expecting so best to act early or do nowt and aim clearly for his stern

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>if guinness is good for you. i must be very very good</font color=red>
 
Of course you could press the go button, luff head to wind and motor across his stern at a safe distance.
Or tack sooner rather than later.
Or do a 180 untill he is well out of the way.
Or plan ahead and not put yourself in that position.

IanW

<hr width=100% size=1>Vertue 203, Patience
 
Ian, just to clarify I'm not in a collision situation and never have been. All I'm doing is trying to be nice and not nick a racing boat's wind .. doing this however could put me in a Collision situation and having altered course in this manner would of course leave me 100% to blame. It is important that one's actions are seen as predictable.

Perhaps one could argue the racing skipper should have thought that one out for himself and its his own fault he's got himself into that position.

In the Solent it is virtually impossible to avoid racing fleets, partic when using the North Channel at low tide. I race dinghies and consequently try to extend courtesy to a racing boat whenever possible. However it does get on my goat when race orgaisers set courses in such a way that it makes it very difficult for boats to avoid them. Soton water is a case in point where 40 foot yachts race on a Sunday morning, and this combined with shipping movements in such constricted waters make it very awkward for leisure boats.

<hr width=100% size=1>O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
 
I would be too frightened to attempt to stand on or pass in front, I do not know his intentions, I would follow the rules. If I had more experience racing and could try to understand how the racing skipper is thinking I might try to work with him.

But as it is, I have nothing to draw on, so would duck behind his stern, I would hope far enough away as not to cause any loss of air, I mean my rig is tiny, I can't see me wmaking a whole lot of difference.



<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

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