Caprice Mainsheet- is this a daft idea?

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[32511]

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As a very recent newcomer, I have been looking at the mainsheet arrangements on my Caprice 19. The rudder post and tiller are quite a bit higher than the rear deck, as they have to clear an upstand timber across the rear of the cockpit. This means that any horse or traveller would have to be impossibly high to be above the tiller.
The arrangement at present is an eyebolt and block at either side. with the sheet in a vee arrangement up to the boom. This is a bit awkward, as the jammer on the port block always seems to be the side I am not, also the jammer is a bit low and difficult to release in a hurry.
What arrangements do other Caprice owners have?
The daft idea was to mount the lower block on a swivel on top of the tiller, on the exact axis of the rudder post. At first glance, it seems simple, and the sheet is readily to hand. Anyone ever tried it?
Apologies if any of the terminology is a bit odd, but I am new at the game!
 
I've been looking at drascombe boats recently (on the web anyway) and there seem to be some dabbers with this configuration. However, I also read about one of them changing the set-up after the block pulled off!
 
Probably quite OK provided it didn't tend to lift the rudder until it fouled under the hull or on the pintles.
However my little 21fter has a mainsheet traveler ona full width track immediately aft of the entrance hatch. There is a bit of bridge deck in the molding. I think of all options I like this best. Some have a traveller across the middle of the cockpit some just attach to a point on the middle of the cockpit floor.
I use the traveler a lot pulling the bottom pulley up to windward to get the boom in the middle of the boat when on the wind and allowing it to go outwards while still holding the boom down when reaching/running. In fact when hard pressed the traveler is released rather than the main sheet.

So try on the tiller but i woiuld advocate a full width traveller system. olewill
 
My Sunray 21 had the same arrangement as your boat. Like Olewill, I fitted a traveller mainsheet block on the little bridgedeck. Mainsail control was much improved, mainsheet was much shorter - less to tangle. I also changed over from roller reefing to jiffy reefs, though, otherwise you'd need a claw ring on the boom.

Cheers! neil
 
If you attach the sheet to the rudder what's stopping the rudder being liffted out of its fittings? At best you are going to put loads of a size and direction on the pintles and gudgeons that they were never designed for. Why not arrange a double-ended sheet with a block and jammer each side? The size of your sail is presumably such that you don't need a hugely powerful sheeting arrangement.
 
Is this a picture of a boat like yours?

capricoc.gif


Why not do without the jammer on the mainsheet cascade and install some jammer cleats on each coaming, or even next to the rudder post?

I used these for headsail sheets, but would have been fine on the main

jammingcleat.jpg
 
I cannot quite visualise your current set up but here are a couple of possible solutions.
A centre main arrangement were the mainsheet comes from the current position, along under the boom and then down to a block on a swivel in front of the companionway. Similar arrangement as you would see on a laser.
Or simply from the boom at this central point, up and down to a block. When not in use just unclip it out of your way. Advantages will include much shorter mainsheet and probably will enable you to get the boom closer to the centre of the boat improving the pointing ability.
 
Lakesailor- thanks for posting the pics.,- my boat looks fairly similar, except there is an upstand timber across the back of the cockpit between the two spray dodgers, just in front of the upstand the rudder post emerges from. I also just have grabbers for the jib sheets, not winches.
I was concerned about extra loads on the rudder bearings, even though with the set-up I've got the shaft would not lift. A traveller at the front of the cockpit is out, as the sheet would foul the spray dodger.
I was probably thinking on the same lines as you, as yesterday I bought a new block, without jammer, and a new jammer I am proposing to mount nearer the rudder post on the upstand timber..
I'll try this out this afternoon, and will see if it makes things easier.
 
Why not keep the arrangement you have but have a jamming block on both sides. It needs a little care to ensure all the sheet is not left on the wrong side but should work well.
 
That's an arrangement worth trying. You can always modify it or change back if not suitable.
I've had two 19 foot boats recently and find the main sheet loads quite low. As you say, it's more important to have it to hand and where you expect it, for those odd "bloody hell" moments.
 
Main problem I can see putting your mainsheet to the rudder is that it will pull the rudder up in the tube, and may cause it to jam against the underside of the hull probably - in fact definitely - just when you need to take emergency avoiding action. The whole thing will lock solid! So no, not a good idea.

There is no provision on the rudder of a standard Caprice to stop the rudder being pushed up against the bottom of the hull because in normal use that would never happen unless you are already hard aground, in which case you will be doing something a bit more radical than rudder waggling.

Lots of other good and proven ways of getting round your problem, as posted above.
 
I part owned a Caprice with my Dad a few years back. For the mainsheet it did indeed have a 'horse' for the traveller, though not sure what you mean by 'impossibly high' ?

In our case it was simply a long 'n' shaped piece of brass bar which was high enough to clear the rudder (approx 5 inches or so) and allowed a shackle holding the end of the mainsheet to slide from side to side.

It was bolted at either end through the ply deck with some backing plates to give extra strength.

If memory serves, I think to this we fitted a double pulley ('fiddle') at the boom and the same - but with jamming cleat at the horse end to control the sheet. It was a simple setup which you could adjust easily on either tack.
 
Here is my weekender that originally had similar idea to yours with an inverted V arrangement for main sheet. I got so fed up with it that I got a local guy to knock up a sheet horse as here.......

sailing010.jpg


It's standard stainless bar ... stainless washers slid on and welded as stops. The bar then bent to provide verticals. The ends then welded to inverted U brackets that slip over the gunwhale and then through bolted. Works a treat.
As you - I was initially worried about the height of the traveller ... but 6 yrs later - still as good as the day made.

Another idea is to remove the jamming part of your present block and lead sheet to a central cleat under the tiller - fitted to cockpit ? That way you can reach from whatever side you are.

I would be wary of adding mainsail load to tiller / rudder post. It was never designed for that load.
 
[ QUOTE ]
A horse it shall be. My kingdom for a horse! Well, a few quid, anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hate to admit this - but it cost me 6 quid ....

The main sheets are actually a Soviet Army 2x block and line for hoisting telescopic field antena !! Cost 50p (incl. line that is still good after all these years !)
 
Just back from the mooring. Horse now fixed (bent up from 50x3mm SS strip), and blocks revised to give 3:1. With the jammer on the bottom block being about 200mm higher, it all works fine. Might actually get a bit of sailing this weekend!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Just back from the mooring. Horse now fixed (bent up from 50x3mm SS strip), and blocks revised to give 3:1. With the jammer on the bottom block being about 200mm higher, it all works fine. Might actually get a bit of sailing this weekend!

[/ QUOTE ]

Where's the photie ?? Just don't forget the stops on the top part to keep sheet block from dropping down one side.

I'm chuffed that my little mod helped in some way ! ta !! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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