Can you get insurance for a ferro yacht?

[Rivers & creeks]

After reading the recent post about yacht Melanie - I didn't know you couldn't get comprehensive insurance for ferro. Is this true in the UK? Rather important as we're looking at three of them!

Thanks, Simon

 

[Searush]

Try it & see. It is a common saying that they are hard to insure because build quality varies so much. Do you have a recent structural survey on any of them?

 

[pvb]

You can get insurance for anything - but whether you find the premium acceptable is a personal choice. Have to say it's a novel approach to have only third party cover and then set up a global begging bowl when things go pear-shaped!

 

[fluffc]

It's hard to come by, and the situation changes year on year.

Highly recommend Yachtmaster Insurance in woodbridge - they handle many ferro boats, and one of the owners IIRC has/had a Ferro boat himself, and my ferro boat is currently comprehensively insured with them.

 

[simonfraser]

from an HT to a ferro boat ??????????????????

 

[Appleyard]

[ QUOTE ]
Have to say it's a novel approach to have only third party cover and then set up a global begging bowl when things go pear-shaped!

[/ QUOTE ]
I suppose when you are desperate you will try anything.

 

[Rivers & creeks]

[ QUOTE ]
from an HT to a ferro boat ??????????????????

[/ QUOTE ] Yep, from unsinkable to a boat made of concrete hee hee!

We're making the step to live aboard and an HT just isn't big enough.

 

[jwilson]

Try Max Burgess at Yachtmaster insurance - see http://www.yachtmasterinsurance.co.uk/ - he is one of the few brokers who can/will deal with ferro

 

[oldsaltoz]

Often referred to as "a Floating Footpath" insurance can be difficult and will depend a lot on when and who built it in the first place, and things like epoxy coated or not can also effect the responses.

Even if you find a company that will cover you, the cost may be very steep indeed.

There are some fine and oldish ones still about like Banjo Paterson that raced and did well in the Sydney to Hobart race, she now lives in the Whitsundays as a charter boat taking tourists out on day sails.

However this is not the norm for ferro as many were constructed by amateurs and getting insurance at all on some is a pipe dream.

Repairing damage is not too complicated even if the chicken wire has been damaged.

Good luck.

Avagoodweekend......

 

[captainslarty]

"You can get insurance for anything "

Well, almost.. only thing you cant insure against is not being insured....

 

[BrianH]

[ QUOTE ]

However this is not the norm for ferro as many were constructed by amateurs and getting insurance at all on some is a pipe dream.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sometimes amateur construction may be better than professional if properly done, that is, poured in one session from inside, vibrated through the steel frame and mesh to ensure no voids and finished by a team of expert plasterers to get a smooth, external finish with sufficient layer coverage of the steel to avoid later rust leaching - not an easy task.

The main trouble is that many were built without always conforming to the above and, even with professional construction, you're never going to know unless you do a destruction test.

I saw one once, back in the early 1970s, that was exactly that, - a destruction test. A professionally built Endurance 35 (Peter Ibold design) that was on its maiden delivery voyage to Whitby, went aground on the flat scaur rocks to the east of the entrance due to faulty navigation and poor visibility. It went on with a falling tide and got broken up when a strong onshore wind blew up during the night on the change of tide. I went down to look at the pieces a day later at low tide and found a section of topside where the inner and outer skins flapped open, hinging on the mesh - they had clearly been plastered separately from inside and outside and the cement had not bonded in the middle.

I know that the builder had a Lloyd’s certificate for that yacht and I have been sceptical about that qualification ever since.

 

[Sans Bateau]

I always remember seeing a ferro boat in Malta in the mid 90's. It was in a yard, ashore, great lumps of cement had fallen off, and there were streaks of rust everywhere as I assume the water had got into and was corroding the steel reinforcement. Its owner was near to a breakdown. I thought then, why bother with ferro?

At least the boat we were sailing on that later went on to do an Atlantic circuit after a long life in the Pacific was made of steel. The owner said to be, "you can always find a welder and some odd bits of steel almost anywhere in the world"

So why create problems for oneself by owning a concrete boat??? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[MrCramp]

You just need to ring around the various brokers.

I had Martin Evans who is a surveyor from Essex come and look at a Samson designed 36 foot yacht, (built in Scotland near Edinburg by Lothian Marine). He condemed it. However Martin has a replica Thames barge built in ferro so not only does he survey ferro boats, he actually has first hand experience of them.

He might be a usefull contact for you and he might be able to recommend an insurer. I would trust his judgement and he has an excellant reputation on the East Coast. His number is 07887 724055.

Just read you bio and noticed you are on the East Coast! There is a massive Samson 55/65ft-ish yacht on the hard at Tichmarsh. It is covered up and hidden by an even bigger tarpaluin-covered scaffolding structure, and has been for 4/5 years to my knowledge, It is in immaculate condition but I doubt the owner will ever get it back in the water. Will be a good buy for someone one day!

 

[webcraft]

I was told that the secret to a successful amateur built ferro hull was that the plastering all had to be completed in one day. At one stage in the distant past a friend and I had a plan to build a 45ft ferro hull. He was a mason and plasterer to trade, and reckoned that we would need twelve professional plasterers for a day to get the required quality of finish.

(We abandoned the project because although we reckoned we could build the hull for next to nothing we had enough sense to realise we could never afford to fit it out.)

Ferro boats which come apart were probably not built like this . . . the one you saw was maybe plastered from the inside and the outside in two separate operations, probably on different days and with a different mix.

- W

 

[No Regrets]

In my short boating career, I have learnt that Ferro boats are either not desirable at all, or just fine.

Furthermore, I have discovered that ALL GRP/Steel, Wooden boats are fine.

On reflection then, I wouldn't touch Ferro with a bargepole.....

/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[No Regrets]

[ QUOTE ]
Often referred to as "a Floating Footpath"

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry. I just spat our nearly a whole mouthful of tea over my keyboard... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[jeanne]

As a ferro boat owner - and very proud too of ours - I won´t comment on the uninformed and bigoted comments of the previous correspondents, but will simply say that we are (and have been for 23 years) insured fully comprehensive with St Margarets. They have been impeccably fair despite a couple of claims. Give them a try.

 

[Bajansailor]

There are many very pretty and comfortable ferro yachts around.
I sailed with some friends on theirs across Biscay 20 years ago - she was 39' on deck and 19 tonnes, with a very steady and comfortable motion at sea. She didnt really get going though until it was blowing a good F 5 - but even when tramping to windward in a F 6 we could still sit around the saloon table and eat our dinner without worrying about everything flying everywhere.

I think that the main problem with ferro cement construction is that the tensile strength of the cement is very poor in tension (although it is excellent in compression). This makes me think that if you could build a pre-stressed hull in the same fashion as how they build pre-stressed concrete bridges, then that would improve the strength enormously, as all the cement would be in compression rather than tension. But this would be very difficult to achieve.

 

[Rivers & creeks]

Thanks for all those helpful comments. Great to know that insurance is a clear possibility. I agree about fitting out a large ferro hull - far far more than the cost of buying and refitting an equivalent reasonably sorted ferro yacht that has been around a few years.

I did like the post about how all GRP, steel and wood boats are fine - we must read different forums!

Thanks for all the help

Simon

 

[BrianH]

[ QUOTE ]

I think that the main problem with ferro cement construction is that the tensile strength of the cement is very poor in tension (although it is excellent in compression).

[/ QUOTE ]
In the days when I was seriously considering building in ferro - and I would buy one in a hearbeat if I was sure the construction was as I specified in an earlier post - I was informed by someone well versed in the material that one should consider the design as being a steel boat (such is the integrity if properly designed and built) with the cement being non-structural and only to keep the water out.