Can we go over my passage plan? Belfast ---> Swansea (NI - Ireland - Wales or NI - NE - Wales)

[oldmanofthehills]

That sounds all very lovely, but if not Wexford, where else could I stop before crossing the Irish Sea to Wales?

Kilmore Quay is shortest useful crossing as 63 land mile to Skomer South Haven or 74 to Dale Pontoon. Wexford is 5 miles more and one can only leave at high tide. The eastward crossing is almost tide neutral with a small amount of gain on a falling tide towards Milford but not necesarily enough to start at silly oclock just to leave at HT

Dublin to Holyhead is 65 land miles so no better but then long passage on a lee shore with no pleasing ports without big detours. Even on a threatened easterly I would go via Kilmore towards Milford - if I went at all. An easterly back is still viable as one can get into shelter in Arklow or Wickford behind the banks. It lumps in Dublin Bay in an easterly

 

[DangerousPirate]

Kilmore Quay is shortest useful crossing as 63 land mile to Skomer South Haven or 74 to Dale Pontoon. Wexford is 5 miles more and one can only leave at high tide. The eastward crossing is almost tide neutral with a small amount of gain on a falling tide towards Milford but not necesarily enough to start at silly oclock just to leave at HT

Dublin to Holyhead is 65 land miles so no better but then long passage on a lee shore with no pleasing ports without big detours. Even on a threatened easterly I would go via Kilmore towards Milford - if I went at all. An easterly back is still viable as one can get into shelter in Arklow or Wickford behind the banks. It lumps in Dublin Bay in an easterly

Fair points, but is Kilmore Quay deep? Looks like it goes to 0,9m a lwl

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Fair points, but is Kilmore Quay deep? Looks like it goes to 0,9m a lwl

Hard to tell from my landbased miniplots on phone or ipad and pilot books on boat. Ring Marina HM?

 

[dgadee]

Kilmore Quay itself is deep enough. Isn't there is a sandbank though just outside?

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Kilmore Quay itself is deep enough. Isn't there is a sandbank though just outside?

The approach might be shallow at extreme astronomical low tide, and one has to navigate through the marked gap in st patricks bridge, but unlikely to be an issue at neaps. There is a fairish anchorage just south of Rosslare but its exposed in strong westerlies and a posible anchorage in rosslare bay but they wont let you in the Ferry Harbour

If DP doesnt like shallow seas and depth sounder dependancy he better keep away from the entire Bristol Channel and its harbours

 

[Rathmines]

Ohh Ardglass. I missed that one. Good call! But why not portaferry? Is it not a pretty place?

I had to skip many harbours due to depth problems, kilkeel for example was one. I know the big tallships go there but I wonder where they tie up and if they sit on the mud?

Howth is one of those places. At least according to navionics.


View attachment 173075

But will definitely plan to go to ardglass instead.

Your only problem is the tide. I kept barracuda of Dart for a while. Coming back from Carlingford we spent 5 hours off Howth with engine going full speed. The boat is now east of London.
Best to cross the channel to Scotland. There’s a ferry port, Stranraer to stay awhile. Then to Hollyhead. After that I don’t know. Going down the Irish coast is time consuming. You have to cross the Irish Sea further south you go and the distance across gets longer.
Regards
Kenny

 

[ridgy]

VMH notes on Kilmore Quay:
Kilmore Quay [Expanded View] - East and South of Ireland: pilotage, charts, photos and marine business listings

 

[DangerousPirate]

Hard to tell from my landbased miniplots on phone or ipad and pilot books on boat. Ring Marina HM?

Sent them a mail now. It's no hurry.

VMH notes on Kilmore Quay:
Kilmore Quay [Expanded View] - East and South of Ireland: pilotage, charts, photos and marine business listings

Doesn't mention anything about depths. But VHM is great like always. I did infact have a look at it earlier

 

[ridgy]

Navigation - Kilmore Quay Marina

Also doesn't mention depths which suggests you have water all the way keeping to the leading bearing. Might be a bit tight on LWS.

 

[DangerousPirate]

Will have to wait for email reply then

 

[DangerousPirate]

Heard just now that there is a free pontoon in dale near milford haven? Does anyone know about this?

 

[john_morris_uk]

Heard just now that there is a free pontoon in dale near milford haven? Does anyone know about this?

If it’s the one I’m thinking of it’s not connected to the shore.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

If it’s the one I’m thinking of it’s not connected to the shore.

The free deep water outer pontoon (about 2 cables length from shore) surges like a switchback in storms and can be mildly alarming - but fine in normal weather. There is also a free one that connects to the shore but it dries so great for shallow draft or bilge but not useful of DP with 1.7m keel.

I can truly reccomend both the Griffin and Dale YC

 

[dgadee]

Is that a Nicholson 30 you have? I learned to sail on one - very tough boat but no sprayhood in those days: that was for soft Moody owners.

 

[chriscallender]

I am currently working out a passage plan for a trip to Swansea, where I have a friend, that I want to visit. Using this only as an excuse to go sailing of course.


Sailing on my own is difficult because I need to stop for the nights and get rest, but I try to avoid anchoring as I am not very confident with it yet. Mostly due to the fact, that I still didn't get around to get an all-chain set up and probably won't do that before the trip.

So I came up with 2 different routes that stop at marinas or at least buoys for the night, and wanted to go over it with you.

The boat is under sail (hopefully) and needs at least 1,7m as I have a fin keel and can't dry out.

First Route:
Belfast to Portaferry (should take 8:30h is about 80ish nm)
Portaferry to Douglas (9-10h, about 90 nm)
Douglas to Holyhead (10h, 95nm)
Holyhead to Aberswyth (13h, 120 nm)
Aberswyth to Skoomer Island to go on a buoy there (13h, 120 nm)
Skoomer Island to Swansea (11:30h at 105 nm)

The issue with this route is that I don't know Skoomer Island or the buoys and couldn't find much information on it. Do they exist? Are they usable? Is there a tonnage limit? My boat is not overly heavy but just making sure. And most importantly: Are there any alternatives nearby? I looked and looked and didn't find much before there to stop without being too out of the way. If I'd carry on to Milford Haven, it's only 2 more hours on top of that, but that leg would be 15 hours or so, and we all know that 5 knots is just an average, could be slower, and then I might end up 20 hours at the helm or something.

Second Route:
Belfast to Portaferry (again; should take 8:30 hours and is about 80ish nm)
Portaferry to Dun Laoghaire (14h at 70nm)
Dun Laoghaire to Arklow (6:45h at 34 nm)
Arklow to Milford Haven (16:30h at 85 nm)
Milford Haven to Swansea (11h at 55nm)

I have two very long legs here as well, Portaferry to Dun Laoghaire (but maybe I can stop at Carlingford Marina to cut it in half), and Arklow to Milford Haven. Milford Haven as an alternative to the Buoys at Skoomer Island, but don't think that would shave off a lot of time, besides, as I mentioned I am not sure about the buoy situation there at all in the first place. And between Milford Haven and Swansea it's another 50-60 nm, which is could be an issue with the tides there. Not sure what is the best procedure there.


Before crossing over to wales, I wish there would be another stop somewhere to make the trip shorter. I was looking at Rosslare Harbour, but I do believe that is a big commercial harbour.


Do you know any alternatives for any of those stops? Or maybe know something about those stops that I missed?

I also know that the Bristol Channel has crazy tides, 8-10 meters or so, so I assume the tides will be very strong, too? Any safety tips? Would that affect sailing in Swansea? Haven't got to check tides yet but will look into that tomorrow, getting late now.

I did most of that in 2011, single handed (overall I did Southampton -> Firth of Clyde). My route was (Padstow)-Milford Haven-Arklow-Dun Laoghaire-Skerries-Ardglass-Bangor. I did Milford Haven to Arklow overnight, the rest were day sails. At Milford you can go to Dale pontoon, I went there at first but went into the town as I needed to get my autopilot repaired The overnight crossing from there to Arklow was near perfect conditions leaving Milford Haven but the wind picked up from the north/north east as I closed with the coast of Ireland around dawn and it was a real slog for the last 20 miles or so. An overnight single handed sail from Milford Haven to Arklow felt quite doable, but for me I'd want a rest day afterwards to take it easy and recharge. I recall leaving Milford Haven at maybe 1700 and arriving Arklow at lunchtime the next day, having a beer to celebrate the Irish Sea crossing then spending the afternoon wiped out and sailing onwards the day after. I met up with some friends in Dun Laoghaire and they joined me for a sail, That's why I stopped at Skerries, dropping them off to get the train home. Skerries sailing club very helpfully found me a mooring and was a nice place to stop for a night. Ardglass was very pleasant as well and my intention was to go from there to Portpatrick however the coastguard issed a strong wind warning and I decided I could only make it to Bangor instead before the wind picked up. The day after that I was in Troon, and 2 days after in Holy Loch (final destination), but that's not so interesting for you.

It won't work out the way you plan it, although it is still useful to have a plan in mind and be aware of different options and routes. Crossing to N Wales and Holyhead or Pwlheli then Fishguard would also be an option. You will adapt your plans anyway based on weather, broken kit (!), and what you feel like doing each day, Even though I enjoy anchoring I like to get into marinas too on these longer single handed trips, there's a convenience to being able to step ashore and get fuel/showers/supplies/take aways etc

Chris

 

[vyv_cox]

Crossing to N Wales and Holyhead or Pwlheli then Fishguard would also be an option.

See post #8. Before the Aberporth range was opened I have done this many times but it can now be a serious obstacle. On the wrong day, dependent upon the areas they are using, you can be forced well out, where the next flood will cut SOG severely.

 

[DangerousPirate]

If it’s the one I’m thinking of it’s not connected to the shore.

Yeah, that's the one I am thinking of, too. But that's fine. I just want to tie up for sleep and then carry on next day. If I am really knackered, I can always go to Milford Haven either same day or next day, it's only an hour or so away. But if that pontoon is fine the way I think it is, I will not have to pay 30 quid for the night and won't be tempted to go drinking haha.

The free deep water outer pontoon (about 2 cables length from shore) surges like a switchback in storms and can be mildly alarming - but fine in normal weather. There is also a free one that connects to the shore but it dries so great for shallow draft or bilge but not useful of DP with 1.7m keel.

I can truly reccomend both the Griffin and Dale YC

The griffin? The restaurant?
But yeah, as mentioned, that's the one I heard about. Perfect for what I have in mind really, just an overnight stop. Don't plan to go ashore, and if I really must, there is always Milford.

Is that a Nicholson 30 you have? I learned to sail on one - very tough boat but no sprayhood in those days: that was for soft Moody owners.

Yes, a Nicholson 30. But with a sprayhood, which is sooooooo good.

I did most of that in 2011, single handed (overall I did Southampton -> Firth of Clyde). My route was (Padstow)-Milford Haven-Arklow-Dun Laoghaire-Skerries-Ardglass-Bangor. I did Milford Haven to Arklow overnight, the rest were day sails. At Milford you can go to Dale pontoon, I went there at first but went into the town as I needed to get my autopilot repaired The overnight crossing from there to Arklow was near perfect conditions leaving Milford Haven but the wind picked up from the north/north east as I closed with the coast of Ireland around dawn and it was a real slog for the last 20 miles or so. An overnight single handed sail from Milford Haven to Arklow felt quite doable, but for me I'd want a rest day afterwards to take it easy and recharge. I recall leaving Milford Haven at maybe 1700 and arriving Arklow at lunchtime the next day, having a beer to celebrate the Irish Sea crossing then spending the afternoon wiped out and sailing onwards the day after. I met up with some friends in Dun Laoghaire and they joined me for a sail, That's why I stopped at Skerries, dropping them off to get the train home. Skerries sailing club very helpfully found me a mooring and was a nice place to stop for a night. Ardglass was very pleasant as well and my intention was to go from there to Portpatrick however the coastguard issed a strong wind warning and I decided I could only make it to Bangor instead before the wind picked up. The day after that I was in Troon, and 2 days after in Holy Loch (final destination), but that's not so interesting for you.

It won't work out the way you plan it, although it is still useful to have a plan in mind and be aware of different options and routes. Crossing to N Wales and Holyhead or Pwlheli then Fishguard would also be an option. You will adapt your plans anyway based on weather, broken kit (!), and what you feel like doing each day, Even though I enjoy anchoring I like to get into marinas too on these longer single handed trips, there's a convenience to being able to step ashore and get fuel/showers/supplies/take aways etc

Chris

Oh, I love that story, sounds like you had loads of fun. I hope to get a similar story.

Of course, sailing plans rarely go exactly as planned, but I do like to have a plan I can stick to and then deviate if necessary. First I lay out my main route and stops, then I mark alternative shelters for different conditions, and soon before leaving, I look at the weather and make necessary changes.

I got time to plan this trip out, so I am doing it slowly bit by bit. It's always good to have a plan of where you can go and what's around.


Before coming to NI I sailed in Scotland, Holy Loch as well, and all the other Lochs in the Clyde, also did the caledonian twice and the crimean. It's truly sailing mecca up there, but for me personally, I want to explore new grounds and meet someone in Swansea, so I won't be back, I think. At least not any time soon. Enjoyed it a bunch though, unlike wales, in the Clyde you got an anchorage and marina every couple hours for any direction of weather and swell.

Edit:
Kilmore Quay just answered my mail from yesterday with the following:

"Thank you for you're enquiry.

The minimum depth in the marina is 2.5 meters at LWS. The entrance to the harbour is dredged to 1.9 meters LWS. As a safety margin to allow for atmospherics, if you avoid entering at low tide ± 1 hour you will be ok. I attached 2 links from our website for your information."

I could go there then potentially. It's not marked on the charts, but they are deep enough for most boats. Just posting this now for anyone interested. It's useful information to have.

 

[zoidberg]

The free deep water outer pontoon (about 2 cables length from shore) surges like a switchback in storms and can be mildly alarming - but fine in normal

It's easy enough to lie to the downwind side in moderate conditions. Be wary of the 'very slick' surface underfoot when stepping on to secure lines - the pontoon is also used by seabirds, a lot!

I understand also there is a 'new' area nearby where anchoring is not now permitted, due to Welsh seahorses or something similar.

 

[DangerousPirate]

It's easy enough to lie to the downwind side in moderate conditions. Be wary of the 'very slick' surface underfoot when stepping on to secure lines - the pontoon is also used by seabirds, a lot!

I understand also there is a 'new' area nearby where anchoring is not now permitted, due to Welsh seahorses or something similar.

It's okay, honestly. What would I even do on that pontoon? Just tie up and sleep 8-10 hours or however long I have for the tide lol. Didn't plan on pontoon yoga (but thanks for the warning)

I also saw on navionics that there might be a few mooring buoys in the north of the bay? I think navionics need to make anchorages, buoys and marinas easier visible, can't go over charts in full zoom for every square km. Navily is a great help but incomplete.

Also is the depth okay there? Looks a little on the edge to the shallow water, one half is in deep water, the other not. But charts are not THAT accurate anyway. That's purely local knowledge.

The passage is taking shape. Nice.
I think I go with:

Belfast - Ardglass - Dun Laoghaire - Arklow - Kilmore Quay (just going through the Saltees instead of that dodgy bridge) - Devon / Milford Haven - Swansea

Seems the best option so far with not too long distances between stops. Just have to plan the long legs, especially the jump across the irish sea, with a lot of caution and wait for the best weather. The rest can be sailed in almost any condition, except very heavy weather (25kts+) or southerlies, even then, some passages could be tacked. Especially between Dun Laoghaire and Arklow.

So far great input from everyone
Thank you guys

 

[john_morris_uk]

Edit:
Kilmore Quay just answered my mail from yesterday with the following:

"Thank you for you're enquiry.

The minimum depth in the marina is 2.5 meters at LWS. The entrance to the harbour is dredged to 1.9 meters LWS. As a safety margin to allow for atmospherics, if you avoid entering at low tide ± 1 hour you will be ok. I attached 2 links from our website for your information."

I could go there then potentially. It's not marked on the charts, but they are deep enough for most boats. Just posting this now for anyone interested. It's useful information to have.

That’s interesting as it’s very different to what’s shown on my Navionics chart.

I’m not sure about your comment regarding how you wish Navionics would mark anchorages. After all you can anchor almost anywhere there’s good holding and it’s shallow enough for the amount of anchor rode you’ve got available. Many’s the time I’ve slipped inside a headland or cove or bay and anchored for the night. Rarely is there a symbol on the chart suggesting that it’s an ‘anchorage’. Just a bit of common sense and a look at the prevailing conditions and forecast keeps you perfectly safe. Navionics would have to be putting anchorage symbols everywhere and even then people would complain because many of them would only be tenable in the right conditions.