Can all, or only some, self steering devices be mounted off-centre?

F

fredrussell

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 Mar 2015
Messages
4,156
Visit site
I’d like to start doing some longer voyages, but after trying a Simrad, Raymarine and Navico tiller pilots over the years I’ve decided they’re not up to being left alone for much more than a few minutes. So I’d like to try a windvane self steering device instead. I have a Super Seal 26 which has a transom hung hinged (lifting) rudder. Rather than build an assembly around the rudder stock to mount the device centrally, I’m wondering which, if any, of the self steering devices could be mounted to one side of the rudder on transom. Transom is straight/ perpendicular to water. Boat is tiller steered.

Any suggestions? Budget up to £800 ideally.
 
Seafeather is the answer. Although it will cost you £2k all in. Comes complete with brackets and everything you need. Plus excellent service. No connection, just happy customer.
 
Have you tried sheet to tiller self steering works very well.

Lots on YouTube on how its done.

On my old Mirage 28 the tillerpilot worked very well.
 
£800 hmmm...a used Sea Feather would be ideal..if you can find one.. your boat's too light to go sticking on full size Aries, Monitors etc.
I remember seeing a used Pacific 'light' which I considered for my similar size boat at the time, it was on ebay.
Just keep looking, ebay, Gumtree, Craigs List, Facebook sailing groups, something will turn up. It helps if you or a friend are handy with spanners, and can weld especially TIG. Then you can fix broken wind vanes which come up surprisingly cheap sometimes.

To add, Hydrovane is the only type you should be mounting off centre.
Just use a normal servo pendulum wind vane, and have it mounted on a triangulated bracket, so the wind vane oar enters the water directly aft of your rudder. It can be quite close, as long as you can still get the rudder off its pintles..
Intuitively you might expect the rudder to influence the oar, but remember the water flowing over the oar does not provide information, it just develops power to shift the rudder.
 
Last edited:
If you are offshore you want to know your system won’t let you down. I looked at the self build one (Henredian) and even a few second hand ones. But this is kit you need to be able to trust 100%. I couldn’t bring myself to put a second hand version on my boat and find myself subsequently worrying that I’d skimped on something I needed to rely on.
 
Something wrong if you cannot allow a decent tiller pilot to steer the boat for more than a few minutes. Our TP30 has done hundreds of hours over the years on all points of sailing, although admittedly mostly under engine.
 
I agree. My tp10 goes for hours under motor or sail. I did have a problem at one stage where it would lose the course but this turned out to be a loose connection. If you go off course every few mins check to see if you are back on “standby”. If you are it means the electrical connections are dodgy.
 
vyv_cox said:
Something wrong if you cannot allow a decent tiller pilot to steer the boat for more than a few minutes. Our TP30 has done hundreds of hours over the years on all points of sailing, although admittedly mostly under engine.
Click to expand...

+1. I have a Raymarine St2000, and I'm on the second one. They get a lot of stick here, but they do work. The main sources of problems are 1) people using one that is too low powered for their boat (some people would recommend the St1000 for my Moody 31, but if you read the Raymarine specs carefullty, you'll see that it isn't rated for the displacement), and 2) they can and do die of sea water ingress if not shielded from spray etc. You DO have to follow the setting up instructions to ensure that the various gains etc. are right for your boat and for the mode of sailing; it is different for motoring and sailing.
 
My Simrad (current) TP does work, just not brilliantly. I find it steers roughly to a course but needs a bit of corrective button pressing every few minutes in anything more than a F3/F4. I balance the sails before engaging TP, and it’s going fine and then the first gust comes along and TP gets over powered. My boat is not the most directionally stable, being quite light with a dagger board type keel. There’s a fair few threads on here of the “my TP is rubbish” variety, so I don’t think mine is at fault, I have a hunch they’re better suited to heavier boats that track well.

My boat has an outboard so the idea of a steering system that uses no power attracts me.
 
Last edited:
Sandy said:
Have you tried sheet to tiller self steering works very well.

Lots on YouTube on how its done.
.
Click to expand...
I've used sheet to tiller a fair bit on several boats many years ago, and on some courses it works very well, if not giving a very precise course - there's always a bit of S-bending in the wake. It's certainly better than not having any self-steering.

Most boats can be trimmed to sail themselves to windward with a tiller lashed or with a bit of rubber strapping. Sheet to tiller of most use on beam to broad reach, where few boats will hold their course for long without assistance. Almost nothing works with main and jib/genoa on a dead run unless you sail under twin headsails.

Your Seal 26 is a fast and lively boat, so what works on slower ploddy boats may not on yours. You do have the advantage of being able to lift the daggerboard offwind, which helps balance greatly.
 
Ohlin Karcher said:
To add, Hydrovane is the only type you should be mounting off centre.
Click to expand...

Cap Horn vanes can be mounted off centre, and I'd be very surprised if there weren't others.
http://caphorn.com/en/welcome/

vyv_cox said:
Something wrong if you cannot allow a decent tiller pilot to steer the boat for more than a few minutes.
Click to expand...

+1

I've done hundreds of hours under various electric tiller pilots (both Simrad and different Autohelm/Raymarine models) in various boats, under engine and sail.

I agree with both PhilM and Antarctic Pilot's advice.

If you want, Fred, I'll come out with you to see if we can resolve the issue, and bring along a different tiller pilot to see if that makes a difference.
 
Just done most of 1600nm offshore journey using a TP22 as my wind vane (Hydra) failed. If you get the right size an electrical/hydraulic Tiller Pilot is more than up to the job. How many offshore race boats use wind vanes these days? NIL.

I'm not knocking them, just saying autopilots have come a long way and if you can't leave yours for more than a couple of minutes you are doing something wrong.
 
Buck Turgidson said:
Just done most of 1600nm offshore journey using a TP22 as my wind vane (Hydra) failed. If you get the right size an electrical/hydraulic Tiller Pilot is more than up to the job. How many offshore race boats use wind vanes these days? NIL.

I'm not knocking them, just saying autopilots have come a long way and if you can't leave yours for more than a couple of minutes you are doing something wrong.
Click to expand...

Or you have the wrong one/ setup for the job. Let’s not knock the operator ... perhaps check the kit first.
 
I have used a Simrad TP30 tillerpilot for over 12 years on my previous boat, both for motoring and sailing; perhaps my favourite gadget on the boat. For motoring was perfect; for sailing was good for all points except downwind and in gusts; the sails must be well balanced for the autopilot to perform well; also, the sensitivity and responsiveness of the autopilots are adjustable too.

I played around with "sheet to tiller auto steering" by connecting the genoa to the tiller and managed to sail for a few hours at a time; the sails must be balanced and the wind must be steady.

I never had a windvane and I am thinking of getting one but unfortunately, I need a wind vane that can be installed off-centre, to my knowledge, the Hydrovane is the only one.
 
Most of the tiller pilots can be had with wind vane options, in which case they are very similar to wheel pilots. I've had both.

In general, with low end autopilots, you want to set them a little off the true course, and with the sails just a bit oversheeted. They can't anticipate like a human, and if the wind shifts quickly, you can get caught aback. But with practice this won't happen every day in normal conditions.

Really, someone needs to be on watch anyway.
 
LittleSister said:
See post No. 10
Click to expand...

So Hydrovane and Cape Horn types can be fitted a little bit off centre..you could, in theory, fit any wind vane off centre..but this method will obviously work differently on port or starboard tack (one will be worse), so why not use a bracket, and fit the wind vane on the centre line like 90% of installations? I'm probably missing something, I don't see what though.. maybe liferafts, boarding ladders, other stuff stowed in/on sugar scoops could be awkward to use?
 
Last edited:
We have a Hydrovane mounted off-centre (to port) and it does work, BUT it does pull the boat to port when the hyrovane rudder is attached, even in free-state, so I do have to lock the wheel with a slight bias to starboard, which is very annoying, as you can see in the wake the turbulence (and therefore extra speed-sapping friction) that the unit causes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top