Can a refit be financially worth it?

[rafiki_]

Good point Raf, no, not yet. I refer you to jfm's reply below

Something to look forward to then

 

[Whitelighter]

I'm going to be doing a small update with Seralia - new saloon upholstery, carpets/floors and a pop up TV in the saloon, plus maybe a FB seating redesign. Don't expect it to add anything to the boat but will make our enjoyment of it better

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

I can see why jfm springs to mind when talking of the AnCam, but at least for the name as such I claim the property of the idea - see this post in Match build thread.
The invoice with the fees for the name usage is in the post!

Ah apologies P, I was thinking about the use of the ® symbol, rather than the name itself. Happy to be corrected.

 

[Portofino]

Back on topic guys
Here's a good example that illustrates payback or lack of it ,saleability , 2nd hand value vs new
Asking €275 K spent lasst year €140 K refitting -guess reinstatement fairprinsun € 1.8 M ?
http://www.mondialbroker.com/Barca.aspx?pk=7132538d-503d-4127-a6b7-a1ac71712b68

 

[jfm]

Is this in addition to the RGB lights or are you moving them somewhere else?

No the current 6 RGBs are coming off the transom and being replaced wth 6 new RGBWs with the new Cree leds. Then we're putting 3 new RGBWs down each side@ 2.25m spacing, separately switched but all 12 controlled by the same Lumishore colour screen controller

I have no idea but EME might offer the old 6 RGB lights for sale. They're mint. When new they were USD3k each ballpark

 

[Whitelighter]

When new they were USD3k each ballpark

*falls of chair*

 

[KevB]

When new they were USD3k each ballpark

Not dissimilar to what you can get in Maplins then

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

*falls of chair*

Let's hope you're not at work then

 

[petem]

*falls of chair*

EACH! ..... Wow!

 

[jrudge]

Back on topic guys
Here's a good example that illustrates payback or lack of it ,saleability , 2nd hand value vs new
Asking €275 K spent lasst year €140 K refitting -guess reinstatement fairprinsun € 1.8 M ?
http://www.mondialbroker.com/Barca.aspx?pk=7132538d-503d-4127-a6b7-a1ac71712b68

Nice looking boat for the money - especially if someone else has just stumped up that kind of money. Could be tempted to be honest but know nothing of Aicon.

 

[BartW]

Q: can you earn back the value of a refit
A: No

Q: refitting a old boat; will you have less depreciation compared to buying younger or a new boat ?
A: it depends

Some points to consider,

- We did a few refits on our old boat that you wouldn’t find on many much younger boats, (ao stabs – hilo platform, ) unless you pay extra for these options, so take these options in the equation.
- It depends how you do a refit; we avoided marine inflated pricing, Avoid expensive yards and service providers
But instead; buying direct from manufacturers, buy at dealer or professional level, managing and engineering the project ourselves (with help from armchair advisers ;-) )
If you rely completely on marine subcontractors, pricing on refits can be outrageous
- This was a way for us to have the space, features and the joy of modern superyacht for a price in our (much lower) budget.
- There is no stress about depreciation, even if I ever have to sell the boat at a give away price, the depreciation is “limited” to what we have spend.
- the process of the upgrade is part of the hobby / fun (I agree this is personal again)


The upgrade in the MBY article, that boat is not my cuppa, not before nor after the refit,
So not much to say on that.

If you want to avoid depreciation, best thing to do is to keep the same boat as long as possible (in most cases)
But than imo you need a more or less timeless model,
and you need the extra meter boat length that your boat is always’s short of (=choose a big enough boat !)


As to which refit jobs add to the value?
I’m not so impressed with the most modern nav gear gadged, and wouldn’t consider this to be a item that ads more value,
Every few years there is a next new model, just like iphones and computers
And especially on nav gear, the old model has much more features than I need or that I use.

Interior, this is a tricky one, I am very critical on the look or finish on many boat interiors, even the most modern boats, many I don’t like.
On this point you need to find a original interior that you really like, (with some minor tweaks)
It is a very difficult job to do a interior refit that looks top notch finish and quality

Structural upgrades can add value, but “ value” can also include the joy and benefits for yourself,
Hi-lo platform imo is one of the best upgrades one can do on a boat , more “value” for a relatively small budget.
Stabs are also good, big budget but the avail for us and our guests is huge, and the attraction of the boat for resale is also good.

New teak deck, is a loss (but will be needed on BA some time) same for the rebuild on engines, but nothing to do about that on a heavy used boat;
So doesn’t add much to the financial value at least not in comparison to the expense.
In my case the new teak could transform the old worn out deck from Canados utilitarian look to a brand new hi quality and modern look, perhaps there is some small value in that.

Oh yes, and one final advice, never make the sums or write them in a exell sheet,
And if you do so, “lock the document“ for other person

All imho

 

[Nick_H]

Back on topic guys
Here's a good example that illustrates payback or lack of it ,saleability , 2nd hand value vs new
Asking €275 K spent lasst year €140 K refitting -guess reinstatement fairprinsun € 1.8 M ?
http://www.mondialbroker.com/Barca.aspx?pk=7132538d-503d-4127-a6b7-a1ac71712b68

The €140k spent is BS, it seems to be just a collection of normal maintenance and modest upgrades over the last few years. These Aicon 56 have always been cheap on the used market because they have flawed layouts. I know of one similar age selling for < £130k.

Google translate of the supposed €140k re-fit;

THE BOAT IS PRESENTED new - - ORDINARY AND EXTRAORDINARY MAINTENANCE MADE IN 2015: REPLACED CHARGER ELECTRONIC Dopia VIA, TAPS, cushion, STEREO WITH BLUE TOOTH, BUSHES AXES, REPAIRED TANK LAUNDRY, RESTORING ice maker, LIGHTS COURTESIES REPLACED LED LIGHTS INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL LIGHTS FIBER OPTIC TUBES LED ON EXTERNAL SIDE. IN 2011: TOTAL POLISHING HULL STEEL + ANTIFOULING AND ENGINE AND GENERATOR + COUPONS + DEEP CLEANING AND FINISHING TOUCHES BILGES AND ENGINE ROOM + INNER + CARPET REPLACEMENT BACKS MAKEOVER SESSIONS FLY + REVIEW OF PLUMBING AND ELECTRICAL + REVIEW + STEERING REPLACE ALL BATTERIES + ASSEMBLY LCD TV IN LIVING ROOM AND IN THE CABIN -

 

[aquapower]

Back on topic guys
Here's a good example that illustrates payback or lack of it ,saleability , 2nd hand value vs new
Asking €275 K spent lasst year €140 K refitting -guess reinstatement fairprinsun € 1.8 M ?
http://www.mondialbroker.com/Barca.aspx?pk=7132538d-503d-4127-a6b7-a1ac71712b68

The spec says MAN 800 engines, the pictures show CAT engine displays, what else in the spec is not correct?

 

[Whitelighter]

Aicon boats had issues when they were on production, and since they've gone bust partial builds and other yard completions have been cropping up.

I'd avoid unless so cheap you can risk burning the cash

 

[Nick_H]

Does an engine re-fit make more sense?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Oh yes, and one final advice, never make the sums or write them in a exell sheet,
And if you do so, “lock the document“ for other person

Thanks for your useful comments, Bart. Yes I have learnt my lesson only recently about keeping boating costs top secret. In the wrong hands such information can be used against you

 

[Portofino]

The spec says MAN 800 engines, the pictures show CAT engine displays, what else in the spec is not correct?

Pic shows CAT C15 ,s a good engine , consistent with helm screens -= typo? No big deal breaker in my book ,par for the course with boat ads .

With a long range sale ,I've found create dialogue with the broker -e mail , phone ,etc and simply verify it all .Ask for more pic,s of anything -that's what I did .
That includes seeing the all paperwork ,in this case evidence of the recent ish ? spend .For the sake of bit of keyboard tapping .
You can at long range "rev up " several prospects before committing .

Then at long range get the price down ( this one,s just come on 14-4-16 so prob best to wait if it's still on by Sept -then they will deal )

Then book a flight to view /sea trial -there should be nothing paperwork wise you need to check on the day ( except sight the original docs that you allready have in your "docs" on your PC )
-just try the boat and have a rummage about .
Condition and upkeep are important €140 K recent spend in the past 12/12 is surely better than zilch ! on a 10y FB
Italians possibly define "refitting " differently to UK boaters

Aircon have indeed ran into financial difficulties post banking crisis - unlike Fairline only once ,but once was enough .
Scrape below the surface of Sunseeker , Feretti and Princess recent accounts , they as an investor make dismal reading .
This boat 2006 predates all that .
It really is a buyers market in the Med and for a retiree looking for a floating appartment to tour the Med with €1.8 M something like this for a year @€ 200 and odd?
The difference would fund a lot of fuel ,berths , flights, and a few more repairs /upgrades ? .
You would not feel guilty leaving it for month somewhere it would blend in .

 

[MapisM]

These Aicon 56 have always been cheap on the used market because they have flawed layouts.

Funny that you should say that, 'cause recently I've seen 4 of them (no less!), #1 reason being that swmbo loves her layout. What do you think is flawed, exactly?
I also find it nice, in fact - it's no coincidence that she was designed by the same architect of the most successful boat ever in this size segment, i.e. the AZ55 (400+ built, afaik).
Just recently, I managed to convince swmbo to forget the A56, after checking out also one of the very few built with a completely different saloon layout - the one they called "linear", which is indeed even better than the most popular "classic" version.
But only based on technical reasons, and after showing her other boats of builders which - even if probably not much known by you folks north of the Channel - make the Aicon look like the proverbial chalk compared with cheese.
I'm talking of Uniesse, VZ, Dalla Pietà. Not to mention SL, but that's actually in a different size range.
By the way, it's a shame, because for some reason most builders went for the V8 MAN or the VP D12 in the 7/800hp power node, and those who choose Cat went for the 3196/D12.
Afaik, Aicon is the only one which always used the Cat 3406/C15.
So, in this respect I would have loved to seriously consider the A56, but heyho...! :ambivalence:

 

[MapisM]

Pic shows CAT C15 ,s a good engine , consistent with helm screens -= typo?

Yup, definitely a typo. All the A56 were built with the 3406/C15, except a very few (called A56S) with the C18.
Btw, in the specs they say MAN inline 6 800hp, while back in those days MAN made one 800hp V8 engine and one 820hp V10.
I can't remember if later they managed to squeeze 800hp out of the 6L engine, but surely not 10 years ago.

 

[Assassin]

Yes, they can be economically viable but these days it is extremely rare and depends upon what skills you have and the issues with the craft you are buying, the contacts you have, and the equipment you have.
Several years ago you could pick up a craft and do an upgrade for very little but times change and the biggest problem is finding craft which can be economically viable as compared to a few years ago, most craft requiring upgrades are overpriced and people have them sitting for months paying fees for them rather than cut the price and let the craft go and make the savings on fees.