Can a moboer get some advice please?

[Murv]

Basically, the next two weeks holiday have been booked and can't be altered , plan was to cruise to Dunkirk and then up to Vlissingen with 4 other boats, one of which has done the crossing many times.
Obviously the weather has now turned against us so I suspect the others will just head up the Thames.

So... I'm wondering what the chances are of us getting there alone without too much trauma.
I'm thinking that if we depart the Medway to arrive off Ramsgate as the tide starts running north east, we'll have a window of wind with tide of around 5.5 hours.
If we run at 18 knots SOG, we'll arrive at Vlissingen with around an hour to spare before the tide starts running against the wind. It would also only leave us around an hour of daylight when we arrive.
Forecast wind speed during the crossing is 10-20 knots south westerly, but will be blowing at up to 40 knots in the 12 hours prior to that, and is forecast to blow up again the following night.

I'm fairly new to boating, I've done all the course work in theory but never ventured across the channel before so really need some experienced advice.

The boat is fairly capable, 40' in length and will cruise at 18-20 knots. But, it's a planing hull so is rolly at low speed, it's far better when up and running fast.
In saying that, it's pushing 30 years old (although well maintained) so although theoretically it will cruise at 22 knots and hit 26 at full throttle, I will only run it at lower revs for that length of time.

Crew are fairly resilient, but a hairy crossing will be too off putting so it needs to be a viable, if slightly bumpy trip. Clinging on for dear life during a long and traumatic journey will lose me serious brownie points...
But, of course, safety first so would greatly appreciate the thoughts of the experienced folk on here before considering it as a serious option.

 

[Momac]

If the one that has done the crossing many times should decline the chance to go I think you should follow his advice.
I didnt make my planned sea trip this summer. Spent 5 days in Hull then back up the river , which was disappointing .

On the other hand Tuesday/Wednesday may be worth a look.
Ramsgate direct to Vlissingen is presumably an option?


.

 

[Cantata]

You've obviously given this a lot of thought, but I'm afraid I am inclined to go with MartynG and express doubt that you should go, looking at all the circumstances. If the crew especially are loved ones whom you want to be cruising with long term, a bad trip for them will be the worse possible start. Also you'll be running with the waves, and 5-6 hours at 18knots in a biggish following sea sounds like hard work for you if you're doing all the helming although I don't have any experience of fast mobo-ing so may have that quite wrong.
You don't say which day you're thinking of - I'm personally very dubious of any forecast more than a day or two ahead.
Don't be tempted into get-there-itis if you are not very confident.

 

[Murv]

Thanks both, will er on the side of caution and probably cancel then.
The experienced boat has only ever gone across to Dunkirk and up the coastline to avoid being too far from land, so haven't done the direct route before.
Saturday was supposed to be departure day.
The following sea shouldn't be too much of a problem provided we can keep the speed up. If not, and if the auto helm can't be set to deal with it, that would be very tiring and the slower crossing speed would result in scenario (2) above.

My biggest problems with the idea of going straight across (to my mind) are:
1) I don't know the sea state in those conditions
2) The window (if it's there at all) seems too tight. If something were to go wrong half way across we could be seriously delayed and arriving at foreign shores in the dark with a strengthening wind over tide.

Probably both good enough reasons in themselves to leave well alone!

Ramsgate to Vlissingen is certainly an option for us and may well be the option we'll go for if there are signs that there will be a more favourable day in the week to leave Ramsgate which we'd head for on Saturday. Also, it makes it moreviable to catch an early tide and plenty of daylight left at the other end.
I suspect we'll be going it alone as the experienced boat won't want to go direct, so I may be back with more questions in the week!

Thanks again,

 

[Tomahawk]

First and foremost read the thread about red fuel and Belgium..

Basically, you are at serious risk of hefty fines if calling into any Balgian port or indeed simply passing through Belgian waters which extend as far out as the TSS, (Belgian customs have been reported bosrding vessels in transit aid issuing fines). That means your trip will involve being in the middle of nowhere for a long time.

That apart, your mobo will happily chomp through seas you will not want to be near. But there is no point. There really is no fun smashing the glasswear etc in a choppy sea. Indeed I will happily sail in 20 kts of wind and a choppy sea... I would be tied up at the bar drinking G&T if I had a mobo. You really do want flat water or don't go!

I would suggest to cross the Thames and go to the Orwell and Blackwater etc. As a crossing it is as long as Ransgate to Vlissingen. And you have the advantage of a straighter line if you venture to Holland should the weather prove fair. And don't he put off by being alone... we raggies are almost always by ourselves and somehow we survive.

 

[Newbroom]

Murv
I think that your window of opportunity is to small considering your a family crew. Also bear in mind that you are trying to avoid Belgium at the moment so alternatives are reduced if the weather is even worse than expected.
A following sea will be more comfortable and it shouldn't be a problem to keep your speed up but the slightest problem and you are down to displacement speeds and your timetable is out the window.
Why not get round to Ramsgate and wait it out, boring I know but I would want a window that I could get across and then wait again if necessary.
If you decide not to go and come up the Thames instead we will be pleased to see you
Dave

 

[pks1702]

I am with the majority here and would chance it especially given the Red Diesel issue in Belgium.

when end we plan trips we tend to have a plan B and given the very changeable weather at present why not turn to port out of the Thames and explore up the East Coast.

Plenty of of short hops if the weather is less than ideal so you get a change of scenery.

Either way hope you enjoy your break and the weather bucks up.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Speaking as an ex-moboer and asssuming the forecast is correct ...........

You're window is too small, predicted wind speeds are too high, 20 knots predicted could easily be 25 knots and that's not really wind speeds you want to plan for. 40 knot winds the previous day could leave you with some residual swell, which, added to a following sea aren't likely to be comfortable. You don't need a flat sea, but anything much more than 15 knots will be hard work and not too comfortable.

With a mobo (especially a planing hulled one) , if it starts to get a nit lumpy, your speed is dictated by conditions, you can't just plough through as you might with a displacement hull. In a sizeable following sea you sit on the back of a wave, just behind the crest and match the speed of the waves. When that wave collapses you piggy back another one. If you try to go faster you launch off of the back of one wave and crash into the back of the next, or nose dive into the trough between waves, neither are desirable. Your autopilot will keep up with the steering, mostly, but it cannot make the continual adjustments to the throttles that will be required.

Your boat may be 30 years old but it will almost certainly stand up to a lot more than you and your crew would want to be out in. My advice would be to take a port hopping holiday along the East coast. Spend the Summer finding out how the boat handles different weather and sea conditions and you will know exactly when is a good week for next years foreign trip.

 

[Newbroom]

Just thought I would post this as a balance to the horror stories of the red diesel issue.
A face-book conversation between two friends currently in Belgium and Holland respectively.
So if you do have to divert into Belgium its not all bad news

It is a 3 week trip . It was decided to avoid Belgium because of the fuel issue, therefore have been to the usual ports in Holland . Thought of you two in Zieriksee xx
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Like · Reply · 1 · 11 mins
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Linda We had no issues at all despite being stopped by customs. They were absolutely fine. Rya put out stuff without substance which created fear. We received confirmation via Belgium Cabinet that their rules have been relaxed for some time. As long as we keep proper documentation the authorities are happy.
Like · Reply · 3 mins

 

[Momac]

Murv
I would like to go to the Netherlands too. ............ eventually.
I have purchased a cruising guide book and thats why I am on this part of the forum looking for tips.
Its not necessarily a straight line route due to wind farms and shipping lanes so takes a bit of planning .
I hope we may have a go next year or perhaps event the year after . Like you I am confined by holidays .
My present idea is Lowestoft to Roompotsluis . We would be coming down to Lowestoft from the Humber

 

[Newbroom]

Just another thought Murv if you can delay your trip, we are going again in August and you would be welcome to join us. (two boats going both cruising at 18 knots)
Dave

 

[Murv]

Many thanks all, decision made then, we're not going to try it.
My thoughts were that it was too risky, nice (in a way!) to have it confirmed.

There are other options, wait it out in Ramsgate, the Thames or east coast as suggested are all possibilities, we'll meet up with the others this evening and see who's doing what.

Dave, many thanks for the kind offer, I've just twigged who you are! Unfortunately I am constrained by holiday/kennels etc so this is my only opportunity otherwise we would have just delayed it.
We will next be on the Thames at Christmas, have booked St Kats for Xmas week

Thanks again all, good to be able to count on the wealth of experience on here

 

[CLB]

Linda We had no issues at all despite being stopped by customs. They were absolutely fine. Rya put out stuff without substance which created fear. We received confirmation via Belgium Cabinet that their rules have been relaxed for some time. As long as we keep proper documentation the authorities are happy.
Like · Reply · 3 mins

That's simply not true. At least 5 British boat shave been fined in the last month or so. Personally I think it's pots luck, even if you get boarded, as to whether yiu get done or not, but the 500 to 750 euro fines imposed indicate to me it is not a risk worth taking. the Belgians seem to change their mind with the wind on this subject. If you had gone in May, no problem. Go in June/July and get fined. The latest suggests if you go in August it will be no problem again. Sorry, but that is not the sort of behaviour that makes me want to visit the country in my boat. I love going to Belgium too, so it's not a decision I would take lightly.

 

[Newbroom]

That's simply not true. At least 5 British boat shave been fined in the last month or so. Personally I think it's pots luck, even if you get boarded, as to whether yiu get done or not, but the 500 to 750 euro fines imposed indicate to me it is not a risk worth taking. the Belgians seem to change their mind with the wind on this subject. If you had gone in May, no problem. Go in June/July and get fined. The latest suggests if you go in August it will be no problem again. Sorry, but that is not the sort of behaviour that makes me want to visit the country in my boat. I love going to Belgium too, so it's not a decision I would take lightly.

What parts not true.
This was from a good friend of mine who has kept his boat in Belgium for the last few years. He has been cruising in Belgium for the past 4 weeks and passed on his experience for the benefit others to make a balanced decision.
Bit strong to call him a liar

 

[CLB]

What parts not true.
This was from a good friend of mine who has kept his boat in Belgium for the last few years. He has been cruising in Belgium for the past 4 weeks and passed on his experience for the benefit others to make a balanced decision.
Bit strong to call him a liar

The part about the RYA putting out stuff without substance, and the part about the Belgians having a relaxed attitude about it for some time.

Oh, and the part about having the correct documentation will mean you are ok.

 

[CLB]

What parts not true.
This was from a good friend of mine who has kept his boat in Belgium for the last few years. He has been cruising in Belgium for the past 4 weeks and passed on his experience for the benefit others to make a balanced decision.
Bit strong to call him a liar

Also, if he has kept his boat in Belgium for the last few years, he wouldn't have red diesel in his tanks anyway, so there would be no reason for him to have a problem with it.

 

[Newbroom]

He was reporting that he has had no problems despite being boarded and what he was told by Belgium customs. Helping to put a balanced view on the current situation about red diesel. Unpleasant and unnecessary to say it is untrue for reporting what he found first hand.

 

[Otter]

Many thanks all, decision made then, we're not going to try it.
My thoughts were that it was too risky, nice (in a way!) to have it confirmed.

There are other options, wait it out in Ramsgate, the Thames or east coast as suggested are all possibilities, we'll meet up with the others this evening and see who's doing what.

Dave, many thanks for the kind offer, I've just twigged who you are! Unfortunately I am constrained by holiday/kennels etc so this is my only opportunity otherwise we would have just delayed it.
We will next be on the Thames at Christmas, have booked St Kats for Xmas week

Thanks again all, good to be able to count on the wealth of experience on here

How about popping across to France? No probs with diesel and gives the crew a foreign experience- plus it's an easy crossing for you at about 90 minutes, we've all been first time channel crossers.

 

[Boz]

He was reporting that he has had no problems despite being boarded and what he was told by Belgium customs. Helping to put a balanced view on the current situation about red diesel. Unpleasant and unnecessary to say it is untrue for reporting what he found first hand.

A bit of thread drift here....

I think CLB's point was it is a bit unfair to castigate the RYA or the CA for that matter who are merely collating information. There is clear evidence now of the other side of the argument and a new post in the "Sticky" that refers to an EU conference in September that could lead to all sorts of problems for British flagged pleasure boats....

 

[Newbroom]

Yep understand that and sorry about thread drift but it seemed a bit strong to say its untrue when I was trying to help Murv about the current situation in Belgium and I was reporting about his experience in the last couple of days.
Dave