Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
Untie? Do they not carry a knife? Our emergency knife would cut all 6 of our home berth lines in about 10 seconds.
Can a boat have too many mooring lines?
- Thread starter westhinder
- Start date
dansaskip
Well-known member
Like Daydream believer when approaching a marina or dock I rig 3 lines each side (bow, stern and breast lines) so that is 6 then I have on hand 2 for springs that's 8 and then sometimes you need extra long ones for example shore lines if rafted up or if in a harbour alongside with high dock wall with big tidal range - Port St Mary IOM springs to mind or indeed a long shore line ashore to a tree or rock at some anchorages. So I believe you need lots oh and for the Panama Canal I hired mine great thick horrid things.
Baggywrinkle
Well-known member
They untie because they need to re-moor the boats somewhere else, and then get back to move the next boat. They are all med-moored, so the front ropes get dropped in the water and the rear ones unhooked from the bollards - just as quick as cutting them, and as two of the ropes (on the front) belong to the marina and are fastened to the sea bed, they aren't going to cut their own moorings.
It depends on the marina and how the boats are moored as there is no one answer to this question.
If med-moored and you put too many lines on your boat (in my marina) then the marineros will remove the excess when you are not there. The boats are cheek-to-cheek with fenders between them, so they need to move in unison and if one boat is rigid and the ones around it not, there is going to be damage.
I've had my lines released a bit on multiple occasions because I tied them too tight, and friends have had springs they put on the stern removed and coiled in the cockpit.
PS: In over a decade my boat has never sustained any damage while moored on the 4 lines the marina dictates, so IMO any more than 4 is just unnecessary for a med mooring - but you can't have enough fenders
Daydream believer
Well-known member
2 points
Have you tried cutting mooring lines with a knife?
10 secs- dream on, unless you are tied with bits of scrap string.
How many marina staff go armed like pirates, or could find a knife & then get to the pontoon in question all within 20 mins of a fire being reported- let alone one starting?
How many boat fires has there been in ALL the UK marinas in the last year?
Daydream believer
Well-known member
With 350 boats in a marina can you tell me where they suddenly get 350 sets of extra line from?
dunedin
Well-known member
Nonsense. Just because you don’t like spliced loops on the end of mooring ropes doesn’t mean they aren’t a good idea and preferred by many others.
Most of our mooring ropes have spliced ends. On our regular berth we have most of them pre sized and left in the pontoon (rear ones on a pole) - to simply loop through cleat and attach on arrival.
When on away berths the ropes are generally used with the loops attached at the boat end. We generally “single up” all ropes prior to departure so nobody needs to be on the pontoon. And of course any competent crew flicks the ropes off the pontoon cleats rather than run them through - and for annoying closed eyes, it is the non-splice end that is pulled through.
PS. We never use OXO on cleats when leaving boats either. Always locking turn as rather it stayed connected than risk loosening. In decades of mooring never ever had a modern rope jamb due to locking turn, nor ever had an issue with spliced eyes on mooring ropes.
dunedin
Well-known member
You are in cloud cuckoo land with that one. La Rochelle has circa 6,000 boats, our winter marina over 600. The marina staff try to help where they can, but can only do so much. And when get severe storms, sometimes staff are not allowed onto pontoons during the worst of the weather.
If we leave a boat unattended we tie it up very securely, and always with multiple ropes for the key corners in case one gets loosened or cut. # Our boats have weathered four of five F10-F11 storms, and in each one multiple boats have been damaged and several sunk, even in harbour/marinas. This is UK, not Caribbean hurricanes.
# On one occasion after a bad storm we discovered a 14mm mooring rope cut through - not by vandals but somehow it had found a sharp piece of pontoon somewhere and sawn itself through. Never found what caused this - perhaps the offending piece broke off?
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oldharry
Well-known member
I always liked to carry at least enough to double up everything, and a couple of really long lines for emergencies. In a Marina berth the number of lines will depend on the amount of movement likely in a storm. In a good sheltered location there should be very little, so needing just the basics but some more exposed pontoons may need everything out and maybe doubled or even trebledup when the weather plays rough.
geem
Well-known member
How often do storms occur compared to a boat onfire near your boat? It seems crazy to me to not secure your boat yourself for a potential storm just incase the boat near you catches fire. Why rely on marina staff to tie your boat up.They untie because they need to re-moor the boats somewhere else, and then get back to move the next boat. They are all med-moored, so the front ropes get dropped in the water and the rear ones unhooked from the bollards - just as quick as cutting them, and as two of the ropes (on the front) belong to the marina and are fastened to the sea bed, they aren't going to cut their own moorings.
It depends on the marina and how the boats are moored as there is no one answer to this question.
If med-moored and you put too many lines on your boat (in my marina) then the marineros will remove the excess when you are not there. The boats are cheek-to-cheek with fenders between them, so they need to move in unison and if one boat is rigid and the ones around it not, there is going to be damage.
I've had my lines released a bit on multiple occasions because I tied them too tight, and friends have had springs they put on the stern removed and coiled in the cockpit.
PS: In over a decade my boat has never sustained any damage while moored on the 4 lines the marina dictates, so IMO any more than 4 is just unnecessary for a med mooring - but you can't have enough fenders
Wansworth
Well-known member
As it mostly large large super yachts that seem to bursting to flame moor up wind of same
RunAgroundHard
Well-known member
That is illogical, if you rely on marina stand to secure your boat "when bad weather comes" then you have not secured the boat "just enough". Transferring responsibility to other people for the safe mooring of your boat, especially when untended by yourself, is a false security.
Skylark
Well-known member
Ouch, that's a bit strong.
Perhaps I don't have your experience, or that of your crew, but my strong preference remains to have lines that can run freely from either end during berthing manoeauvres. Also, I prefer to have lines which can be released from either end while under tension.
RunAgroundHard
Well-known member
I great method I learned from a sailing school was a one line tie up when along side a marina pontoon. Variations can be applied. In the case where I learned this method, aft cockpit, 32 footer, long pontoon, one line attached to cleat on quarter.
The boat was stopped along side, stepped ashore, figure of 8 around aft cleat on pontoon, then line up to mid ship cleat on yacht, back down to bow cleat on pontoon and then up to bow cleat on yacht. Worked very fast on that yacht, on that pontoon. We also learned variations with the same line but this time fixed at beam cleat, equal lengths each side. Come along side, step ashore, take line to aft cleat on pontoon, then up to aft cleat on yacht, then do the same with the other end on the beam cleat, to the bow cleat on the pontoon and up to the bow cleat on the boat; just one line.
I use the single line, beam cleat on my boat which overhangs the pontoon significantly. I then double up on bow and stern lines when I leave the boat.
The boat was stopped along side, stepped ashore, figure of 8 around aft cleat on pontoon, then line up to mid ship cleat on yacht, back down to bow cleat on pontoon and then up to bow cleat on yacht. Worked very fast on that yacht, on that pontoon. We also learned variations with the same line but this time fixed at beam cleat, equal lengths each side. Come along side, step ashore, take line to aft cleat on pontoon, then up to aft cleat on yacht, then do the same with the other end on the beam cleat, to the bow cleat on the pontoon and up to the bow cleat on the boat; just one line.
I use the single line, beam cleat on my boat which overhangs the pontoon significantly. I then double up on bow and stern lines when I leave the boat.
Wansworth
Well-known member
Inourmodern times we don’t live in the same harbour as our boats and we must assume marina staff are competent to take the best care possible
RunAgroundHard
Well-known member
I assume they will not be able to tend to my boat for whatever reason, competency does not come into it.
Wansworth
Well-known member
Well at least hope that they will contact you to say it’s drifting off…….a flame
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
Fires, 100% agree, its very rare. As for the knife, no kidding. It is also my rigging knife, for cutting dyneema. Polyester it doesn’t bother to notice.
RunAgroundHard
Well-known member
Well at least hope that they will contact you to say it’s drifting off…….a flame
Planning for strong winds and stuff is one thing and reasonable, planning for a fire on another persons boat is unreasonable. If my neighbours boat catches fire, and the marina staff stay safe and as a result mine catches fire, I am insured. End of story. Leaving my boat with inappropriate mooring lines in case my neighbours boat catches fire so that that marina crew can quickly cut the lines would not be a reasonable thing to do.
Baggywrinkle
Well-known member
It's really quite simple, the marina is pretty much non tidal, we are not on finger pontoons but jowl to jowl with our neighbours. The bow is secured to concrete in the sea-bed with two warps provided by the marina, and the stern is secured by two ropes supplied by the boat owner - with the stern held well clear of the fixed dock - get the right tension on bow and stern and the boat is fine. If I tie my boat with springs across the stern so it cannot move in unison with its neighbours, then it will potentially be damaged and cause damage the boats next to it. That's why the marineros wander round the marina every day removing any ropes that constrain the movement of boats in relation to their neighbours - they also move the boats further from the dock in storms and tension the lines. It's part of the marina contract, and it works. I often return to the boat and it is not tied with the same knots I left it with - but no problem, and no damage over more than a decade.
If it was an unattended dock, then that would be very different.
Over the years I have seen loads of numpties in the med who try and make their boat immobile in med mooring situations by lashing up the stern with a cats-cradle of rope. They just end up bursting fenders or popping them out, and grind against the free-moving boats on both sides, taking the strain of multiple boats on their own mooring lines and fenders .... and they are often too close to the dock so hit that too.
dunedin
Well-known member
To quote your post ..... "cut these off they are the work of the devil" is more than "a bit strong" isn't it?
