Camping Gaz problem

[bluedragon]

Anyone had problems like this? Our gas goes low (or even out) from time-to-time as though the bottle is empty, but then recovers and works fine! I can only assume this may a regulator problem. Any other thoughts? Happens with both burners, and usually after the bottle has been used for a while (thus making me think it's empty).

 

[Dave_Seager]

it might just be getting cold. As you draw gas from the cylinder the remaining liquid evaporates to replace it. This evaporation requires heat and cools the cylinder. If it becomes cold enough then the evaporation is reduced or may stop completely. Although it has been sunny, the air temperature has been near freezing at times. If the cylinder starts cold then it does not take much to stop it from working.

 

[stuey_two]

Was writing this when Dave Seager posted - great minds think alike!!

Might be a temperature related problem. Gaz use butane whicht won't vapourise if ambient temperature is below about +3c. Even above that temperature, the bottle cools as gas is used and this can hinder evaporation. Good ventilation around the bottle is needed to allow it to warm up again - you can speed the reheat by holding the bottle in your hands
We got fed up with this palaver in cold weather and changed to propane - problem solved.

 

[aquaplane]

Well, Camping Gaz is a mix of Propane and Butane so being too cool shouldn't be as much of a problem.

If you mean you have gas, Propane boils at -42°C so it's got to be bloody cold to stop it boiling.

Butane, the heavier one, boils at -5°C so there is a chance that you may struggle in cold weather, but not in the summer in the UK.

 

[saltylegs]

as above cylinder is too cold, most common with butane or butane mix. and with cylinders when used in a very small gas locker.

 

[VicS]

Well, Camping Gaz is a mix of Propane and Butane so being too cool shouldn't be as much of a problem.

If you mean you have gas, Propane boils at -42°C so it's got to be bloody cold to stop it boiling.

Butane, the heavier one, boils at -5°C so there is a chance that you may struggle in cold weather, but not in the summer in the UK.

I think you will find that Camping Gaz, at least what is sold in the refillable cylinders, is in fact butane not a mixture of butane and propane.

The OP's symptoms do seem to suggest that the bottle is cooling to the point where gas flow ceases, but only if it slowly recovers over a short period of time. Possible I suppose in a small gas locker effectively insulating the bottle from regaining heat from the surroundings.

If it recovers more quickly than the bottle regains heat then I'd suspect the regulator.
Due for replacement if over 10 years old.

 

[SAMYL]

When the gas is going low give the reg a shart tap with a spanner or something and watch to see if the flame recovers. If it does then you have your answer.

Try shaking the bottle too to see if that helps - the bottle may be nearly empty and sometimes this helps to squeeze a bit more out.

Try a different regulator if you can borrow one for a while just to be sure before buying one, they are not cheap.

 

[VicS]

Try a different regulator if you can borrow one for a while just to be sure before buying one, they are not cheap

A standard regulator to fit directly on a Camping Gaz bottle is only £2.56 from BES.

The marine ones to Annexe M specifications are agreed a tad more but I bet there are many more standard ones in use on boats that Annexe M ones.

 

[Seajet]

Having an Annexe M regulator ( about £30. ) might make things a lot easier if anything nasty happened and insurance became involved.

Do agree it sounds like the regulator though, I've used Gaz for years over Southern UK winters, never got too cold for the gas.

 

[bluedragon]

Thanks guys. I thought about the "cold" as well, but most recently this happened yesterday at about 6.00pm when although it wasn't the best of days the temp was around 16-17C at least. As the liquid gas expands it will cool and perhaps with a nearly empty bottle it needs time to recover, but I suspect the regulator is the original (10 years old) so I think I'll change it anyway (although the tapping idea is a good one).

 

[ghostlymoron]

There is a vent hole in the regulator that can get blocked and give the symptoms you describe. I found that clearing this with a needle restored normal operation. If the regulator is 10yrs old or looks corroded, it should be replaced anyway. They're cheap enough - I wouldn't bother with a 'marine' version - didn't even know you could get them.

 

[VicS]

Just to explain a bit about marine regulators and AnnexeM

From the Gasboat brochure. qv

EN 12864 annex M
This standard is for the design and manufacture of
regulators for LPG cylinders to supply appliances installed
in saltwater boats.
• Material in contact with the atmosphere shall be suitably
corrosion resistant. In particular this includes internal
components above the diaphragm.
• The vent shall be on the edge of the diaphragm, in a
suitable location and of suitable size to drain water which
may collect on the diaphragm.
• Shall incorporate an over-pressure relief device, the
vent shall be provided with a pipe connection facing
downwards.
• Operating pressure specification to annex D.
PD 5482 - 3 2005
Codes of practice for LPG installations in boats,
yachts and other vessels: ‘Regulators must
conform to EN 12864.’
BS EN ISO 10239 2000
Small craft LPG installation regulation covering
all vessels built after Nov 2000: ‘Regulators must
incorporate a pressure relief valve.’
BS EN ISO 10239 2008
Regulators installed in vessels used in a saltwater
environment must conform to EN 12863 annex M.
Systems must include a high pressure gauge.​

I don't think many, if any, forumites had heard of marine regulators or Annexe M until very recently

Now they are something you " must have".

( My camping shop regulator will see me out I hope but if it fails I'll probably go for a marine one and to hell with the £20 it'll cost)

 

[bluedragon]

OK guys, today the bottle was actually empty! But this has been going on for some days, so it may still be a regulator issue when the bottle is getting low. Worth changing anyway.

BTW - this Gaz stuff is expensive isn't it!! Double the cost of Calor butane. I must have another look at whether a 4.5kg Calor is an option.

 

[rob2]

Agreed it is most likely to be the degradation of the regulator causing the problem, but there are other possible contributary factors. When you are fitting a new regulator, have a look at the state of the flexible hose - sometimes an old hose can degrade leaving a gooey deposit which constricts the flow. You may as well check the whole line, including the copper pipe which could have become kinked when snagged by stuff going in and out of the lockers, etc. This month's PBO article on gas installations suggest increasing the pipe to a 10mm to improve flow when all the burners are in use.

Rob.

 

[vyv_cox]

This month's PBO article on gas installations suggest increasing the pipe to a 10mm to improve flow when all the burners are in use.

My installation is still 1/4" (6 mm), as it was installed. I contemplated changing it to 8 mm a few years ago but beforehand I tested the flow. With both burners, grill and oven on there was plenty of gas. Originally it also had a catalytic heater on the same line, removed years ago.