Campbeltown to Ballycastle

[Martin&Rene]

A few months ago, I wrote to the YM saying that it would be good to have a “Question of Seamanship” that was not based on the South Coast. They have followed my suggestion and looked at a trip from Campbeltown to Ballycastle in Northern Ireland. I have only been round the Mull of Kintyre or across the North Channel a few times, mainly in lightish winds and though I have seen the various “interesting places”, they have always been fairly benign. So, I would be interested to pick up the experience in more demanding conditions of others, as to what they thought of the suitability of the proposed solution.

Boat: Contessa 26, with a man & wife crew.
Conditions: SW Force 5, presumably near springs as tides of 4kts are mentioned.
Solution: Leave from a point well east of Sanda Isle just as the South East tide ceases (just before HW Dover?) and set off on starboard tack.
Reasoning: The NW ebb stream will be pushing on their lee bow and will quickly push them over towards NI and so they can then work up the NI coast, away from the turbulence of the MOK.

My thoughts. The tides are at their strongest (4kts) along the NI coast near Torr Head and whilst they are on starboard tack heading south of Sanda early in the ebb tide in weaker streams, they will not be pushed much towards the NI coast. I would think they would need to go about on to port tack sometime after around a couple of hours.

Questions:
Do you think the sea state of a F5 SW across a 4kt steam in the North Channel would give them a comfortable ride, or not?
Would they make it into Ballycastle before the tide turned East in the Rathlin Sound? If they did, what would the sea state be in Rathlin Sound with a West going tide against a SW wind?

 

[claymore]

With a SW 5 forecast, Campbeltown is a very pleasant place to stay until it has gone through. I've always considered Fair Head to be the one to get right.

 

[JumbleDuck]

With a SW 5 forecast, Campbeltown is a very pleasant place to stay until it has gone through. I've always considered Fair Head to be the one to get right.

+1. With that forecast, my 26-footer with its crew of one adult and one child would be giving the Taj Mahal in Campbeltown a bit of custom.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

If you leave Sanda to starboard on a starboard tack in a SW at HW Dover you will be heading south. The tide will have increasing amounts of north in it as well as west before long. At springs within 2 hours after HW you are in a 4 knot tide, and your progress anywhere in that boat will be slow. If after a couple of hours you tack you will then be pushed north at high speed as well as west and are at risk of missing Rathlin sound completely and pushed into the TSS or the MacDonnel Race.

If progress is too slow you will not get round Fair Head before the tide turns, and it's then game over for that tide as it is more than 4 knots at springs between Torr Head and Fair Head. Glenarm will be your destination whether you choose it or not!

With the combination of a brisk wind from a not helpful direction, a fairly slow boat, an inconvenient TSS, spring tides, seriously strong currents and only 6 hours to do the passage before you get whooshed off somewhere else I wonder whether the passage in a single tide as you propose is possible at all if you want to obey the TSS rules. Maybe Campbeltown to Glenarm on one tide and then onwards to Ballycastle the next is more likely to succeed.

Whatever route is taken the answer to would it be a comfortable ride in a SW 5 is - not a chance. The whole of the North Channel is lumps and bumps in a F5 springs, and the tide races at either end are nasty, and not completely avoidable.

I know that this is only a theoretical passage, and for that it's an excellent choice, because it's a tricky one. I did the opposite earlier this year (Rathlin to Campbeltown) and there was quite a long thread here about it for the same reason - it's doesn't seem possible to do it in a single tide in a small boat with an unhelpful wind obeying the TSS rules and avoiding getting bumped by the races or whumped by the tide somewhere along the way.

 

[pmagowan]

There is the race inside sanda and off MOK which could be a bit of a chop but nothing too much to worry about generally. I would be far more concerned with the other side and if I had to make the trip I would head for Glenarm first. I have done the trip often in a 28' long keeler without too much bother but trying to navigate the headlands on the way to Rathlin with such a potentially variable speed is not sensible and I would advise putting off to another day in those conditions. Torr head can be hell with a wind against tide even in fair conditions. The sea is absolutely non-predictable there and I have been soaked and battered there on many occasions. There is simply too much to go wrong and too little opportunity to seek shelter. Heading straight to Glenarm is not too bad in most conditions. If you push for Rathlin at best you will be in for a worrying and wet time. At worst you will find yourself in a very scary situation in a boat that will not have the ability to push through and you would simply have to ride it out. Even the entrance to Ballycastle is potentially untenable in the wrong conditions. Wind against tide in this region is not to be messed with.

 

[JumbleDuck]

There is the race inside sanda and off MOK which could be a bit of a chop but nothing too much to worry about generally.

We went through a real washing machine well outside Sanda a couple of years ago. Didn't let up till we were level-heading north - with the hill called "The Bastard".

Wind against tide in this region is not to be messed with.

Amen. I have stood at the Mull of Galloway lighthouse and watched the effects of a F5 wind over tide. Wrong Mull, same principle. Yeugh.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

I would be far more concerned with the other side and if I had to make the trip I would head for Glenarm first.

On Tuesday this week I departed Port Ellen for Rathlin. The wind was F4-5 WSW. I just clipped the west end of the TSS mostly on one tack. I planned to get to the western end of Rathlin at slack water at the end of the east going tide but progress had been good and I arrived an hour early. As I approached Rathlin the tide picked up speed & I couldn't lay the end of the island by about a mile, so I had to tack directly into the stream. It took 3 tacks in the end and 40 minutes to do that last mile. Theoretically it was almost slack water as I rounded the lighthouse, but I got pushed right into the race & it wasn't pleasant at all. That was just before slack water and wind with tide. And at the calmer end of the island. The other end is worse.

One of the difficulties of sailing to Rathlin/Ballycastle is that passage planning is inaccurate & arrival time is a rough guess, so you cannot guarantee to arrive at slack water. Departing is much easier in that respect.

 

[pmagowan]

Even the last time I departed Rathlin after a week without enough wind to raise a sail this summer and there was a random wind on the nose as we left at slack for the tide going south. Of course slack is more or less meaningless and the Slough na mor tried to swallow us. My girlfriend was asleep in bed and says she levitated! This was nothing compared to Torr head which was like some kind of washing machine and despite being in a dry 41' boat I was drenched from head to toe. I have done this trip many times, being my home waters, but it can still bite. As soon as we past Torr head the wind died to nothing and smooth motoring in flat calm. Rathlin can be absolutely lovely and calm and then absolutely hideous without any obvious reason! I am always please when tied up and in the pub! On entering on the way up for the summer cruise we got in just in time as the waves started to break over the new mole!

 

[Quandary]

I know it might be considered improper to suggest that one might pay less attention to TSS rules but I find the N. Channel one difficult to get excited about, admittedly, on the passage you might catch site of one ship in the distance but the Straits of Dover it ain't.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

I know it might be considered improper to suggest that one might pay less attention to TSS rules but I find the N. Channel one difficult to get excited about, admittedly, on the passage you might catch site of one ship in the distance but the Straits of Dover it ain't.

That I agree with. I try to respect it if there's anything around, but sometimes in that part of the world tide considerations are more important.

 

[lpdsn]

Boat: Contessa 26, with a man & wife crew.
Conditions: SW Force 5, presumably near springs as tides of 4kts are mentioned.
Solution: Leave from a point well east of Sanda Isle just as the South East tide ceases (just before HW Dover?) and set off on starboard tack.
Reasoning: The NW ebb stream will be pushing on their lee bow and will quickly push them over towards NI and so they can then work up the NI coast, away from the turbulence of the MOK.

My thoughts. The tides are at their strongest (4kts) along the NI coast near Torr Head and whilst they are on starboard tack heading south of Sanda early in the ebb tide in weaker streams, they will not be pushed much towards the NI coast. I would think they would need to go about on to port tack sometime after around a couple of hours.

Questions:
Do you think the sea state of a F5 SW across a 4kt steam in the North Channel would give them a comfortable ride, or not?
Would they make it into Ballycastle before the tide turned East in the Rathlin Sound? If they did, what would the sea state be in Rathlin Sound with a West going tide against a SW wind?

I've done a fair bit of offshore racing over the years and I sail those waters in a 43' deep-draught fast cruiser with a 40-odd percent ballast ratio and despite that sometimes I just decide it'll be more fun to go in another direction.

For a start, when they say SW force 5 in the forecast in that area they really mean SW 5-6 occ 7 with the 6 occ 7 being around the MoK. Often they will be more explicit and mention the Mull of Kintyre by name, but not three times.

Then to get to the start the Contessa will have to come down the coast from Campbeltown against the last couple of hours of the flood to get past Patterson's Rock to get to the starting position. I guess it is technically the Firth of Clyde but that bit is excluded from the bit about tides being generally weak. There'll be a knot or more. Yes they can fight the tide but with waves also rolling around the corner it won't be that much fun or fast.

Then they'll keep going on starboard. And they won't get very far against the north channel ebb but afterwards they will be in a position to give comprehensive feedback to their oilskin manufacturers. And as already said, when they tack they'll rapidly be swept north towards the TSS. As also said it's not a serious TSS, but you do try to show it some respect.

They'll not lay Rathlin Sound anyway and will have to tack again to keep within a manageable distance of the rhumb line. They'll not make it in time.

And Rathlin Sound...remember it is not just a passage with wind against tide. There is a complex set of back eddies with a named whirlpool. The race off Torr Head is not to be sneezed at either. Anyway, as Angus McDoon says they'll be swept back so quickly by the flood they won't have to worry about Rathlin Sound.

I reckon a Contessa 26 could get into Carnlough though - and it'll be near HW when they get there. They could warm up in The Londonderry Arms (if they get there before closing time).

 

[AngusMcDoon]

I reckon a Contessa 26 could get into Carnlough though - and it'll be near HW when they get there. They could warm up in The Londonderry Arms (if they get there before closing time).

As this is just a theoretical passage for a magazine article the write up should describe why this passage would be unlikely to succeed in one tide in that boat and those conditions and give the recommended route as via Carnlough or Glenarm. From either of those intermediates to Ballycastle in a SW would not be difficult, if a bit bumpy in Rathlin sound.

An alternative of course is to change the boat to an A22. Job done. Dim problem o gwbl!

 

[pagoda]

As this is just a theoretical passage for a magazine article the write up should describe why this passage would be unlikely to succeed in one tide in that boat and those conditions and give the recommended route as via Carnlough or Glenarm. From either of those intermediates to Ballycastle in a SW would not be difficult, if a bit bumpy in Rathlin sound.

An alternative of course is to change the boat to an A22. Job done. Dim problem o gwbl!

It's always tricky to do the North Channel without some foul tide. And more so with a less friendly wind . We recently managed Greencastle on the Foyle to Sanda in one go. With some motor sailing here & there. We started out with about 1 to 1.5 knots against us until somewhere off Giant's Causeway. The tide then assisted us through Rathlin Sound most of the way to Sanda, where it became the enemy again. We could have pushed round to Campbeltown, but the wind died and we'd had enough so we anchored. So long as you aren't fighting 4 Kt foul tide and ill Wind at the same time, it's tolerable, though 2m standing waves off the Mull ain't my idea of fun.

 

[lpdsn]

... it's tolerable, though 2m standing waves off the Mull ain't my idea of fun.

Aye, but maybe it's the Mull's idea of fun.

 

[dunedin]

With a SW 5 forecast, Campbeltown is a very pleasant place to stay until it has gone through. I've always considered Fair Head to be the one to get right.

:encouragement: The voice of experience !

(And we decided to bail out of a trip south to and round the Mull this week - doable but not pleasant with forecasts with Rough and worse in the wave forecast. Would have done Canal but not enough water