Calor. Gas.

Try being a domestic user! Our bulk Calor tank is now at 3% & it’s our only means of heating. Promised delivery by December 10th . Constantly fobbed off by “customer service” who now will not even reply to our emails (impossible to get through by phone) We are now making plans to move onto the boat, which at least has diesel heating & a full propane bottle.
 
MartynG said:
Its Butane
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Damn, Wikipedia must be wrong, then: Campingaz - Wikipedia
I hadn't appreciated that the content in the R-bottles was different from the disposable canisters.
MartynG said:
Yes they do
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How so? There are plenty of alternative gas suppliers- Calor, Flogas etc. If you are restricted to using a Campingaz bottle by the space in your locker then that's a design issue with your boat, not monopoly control... is your issue that they are the only suppliers of small bottles?

Gaslow R67 2.7kg Refillable Cylinder 1 with Level Gauge

MartynG said:
Yes it is.
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Well, you are entitled to your opinion but I don't see what's stopping you choosing another source... as above they are charging for the service, not the gas... if you don't want the service then don't buy it!! It's a leisure product for a niche market, so hardly going to be competitive per Kg with bulk supplied gas but the convenience offered justifies a bit of a mark-up, IMHO.
 
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Yes Campingaz refillable cylinders are 100% Butane
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The Gaslow refillable cylinders are a consideration. I would need two as a full spare is always required . Altering the gas locker is a non starter in my case.
Would probably get payback on the Gaslow cylinders in 3 years . Sources for refilling these with lpg are potentially becoming more scarce with time which is a concern.

The refilling of Campingaz cylinders is done by Calor in the UK and there is no competition in the sense that no other company can refill them as far as I am aware . Therefore it's a monopoly. Retailers probably don't make a great deal on refills . Those that charge a little less probably ordering larger quantities.
 
Ok here I go…..

what follows in not based on any form of proof, evidence or other real world input, it is just my own personal take on what I think is going on at the moment, it is however based on nearly seventy years of living in this world and the scepticism that that can often bring ?

As we know last year was a total wash out for many…. we couldn’t travel, we didn’t use cars or public transport to go to work, offices and industry all but ceased…. So energy companies, I guess worldwide, sold a lot less energy…. Less gas, electricity, petrol etc… a lot less was needed for cars, public transport, to fuel industry, to heat and cool large empty office blocks etc. so less energy of all types was sold and therefore less profit went to the energy suppliers…. So as soon as restrictions began to be been eased and there was a chance that we would be using petrol, gas, electricity etc. again a raft of ‘energy shortages’ were suddenly identified and as usually happens prices were increased to reflect the ‘shortages’. I firmly believe that no such shortages existed and that energy company’s have simply increased their prices in order to cover last years losses.

The Calor Gas debacle is a case in point….. I should imagine that as a result of lockdown etc and the ban on travel and holidays the sales of Calor Gas for ‘leisure’ use fell through the floor last year, all Calor are doing now is hiking the price to cover last years losses.

Simples ??

I may be wrong…… but I might not ?

looking forward to anyones thoughts on this……

Cheers.
 
Applescruffs said:
Ok here I go…..

what follows in not based on any form of proof, evidence or other real world input, it is just my own personal take on what I think is going on at the moment, it is however based on nearly seventy years of living in this world and the scepticism that that can often bring ?

As we know last year was a total wash out for many…. we couldn’t travel, we didn’t use cars or public transport to go to work, offices and industry all but ceased…. So energy companies, I guess worldwide, sold a lot less energy…. Less gas, electricity, petrol etc… a lot less was needed for cars, public transport, to fuel industry, to heat and cool large empty office blocks etc. so less energy of all types was sold and therefore less profit went to the energy suppliers…. So as soon as restrictions began to be been eased and there was a chance that we would be using petrol, gas, electricity etc. again a raft of ‘energy shortages’ were suddenly identified and as usually happens prices were increased to reflect the ‘shortages’. I firmly believe that no such shortages existed and that energy company’s have simply increased their prices in order to cover last years losses.

The Calor Gas debacle is a case in point….. I should imagine that as a result of lockdown etc and the ban on travel and holidays the sales of Calor Gas for ‘leisure’ use fell through the floor last year, all Calor are doing now is hiking the price to cover last years losses.

Simples ??

I may be wrong…… but I might not ?

looking forward to anyones thoughts on this……

Cheers.
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Interesting, but, while I am of the view that Calor Gax have made a complete mess of the current situation ( following on the debacle of thrir redesign of the 4.54 Kg butane bottle), I don't agree with your analysis.

Calor clearly don't see the marine sector as an kmportant part of their business, if you don't believe me, go to their website and see how little reference there is to marine use. Whatever the pandemic meant for enersy demand in general, I'm pretty sure demand for bottled gas went up - barbecues in the garden replaced trips out, whatever the law / advice said, seaside caravan sites changed from being fairly empty except in summer hols and spring autumn weekends to full all year round, nestly always with bottled gas heating and cooking. This was largely caused by owners of static caravans seeking to get out of big cities ( locations with higher than average infection rates). Even work from home would have relocated leople from workplaces (almost never LLG heated) to home (occasionally LPG heated).

The problem was Calor's reaction to the pandemic - they all but stopped work rather than trying to gear up go meet increased demand. Full marks for prorecting their employees from infection but zero for getting creative to find ways for their staff to continue delivering their service jn the face of the need to prevent infection.

Like you, I have no evidence go support my view, but I do have the benefit of over 7 decades of living in this world.

Peter.
 
The problem comes from Claor Gas charging for a bottle, but after 2 years, you have bought it. There is no incentive to return empty bottles. Then add in the equation covid reducing manufacturing of gas bottles. Finally add in a sudden increase in demand for BBQs, caravans, motor homes, mobile homes, boats, camping due to staycation holidays being forced on the population. Hence massive shortage of gas bottles. Gas sellers will only release empty bottles against a delivery of full bottles, so this adds to the shortage. Calor Gas's business plan is now being shown to be faulty for us, the end user of their products.
 
When searching for a full 4.5kg cylinder to replace our empty one early last season we spoke with a lot of suppliers as well as the local Calor depot. It appears that they have had supply issues going on for quite some time and it pre-dates the pandemic and Brexit. One boatyard on the Broads said they stopped supplying to the public a couple of years ago because of the problems they had getting stock and they wanted to keep what they could get for their hire fleet.

Several suppliers said that there had been a problem with a consignment of new bottles from Turkey that were defective, which had contributed to the shortage and Calor themselves had no idea when they would have full bottles available. The general gist form many stockists was that supply was a lottery and they had no idea how the company was still in business. All also reported that demand had increased substantially due to staycationers.

We kept the empty bottle in the car so that we could try every stockist that we can across and we got lucky when we passed a campsite in Derbyshire that had a Calor sign by the gate. ?

We now need another refill and it sounds as though nothing much has changed unfortunately.
.
 
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MartynG said:
...
The refilling of Campingaz cylinders is done by Calor in the UK and there is no competition in the sense that no other company can refill them as far as I am aware .
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Do you have a reference to back that up, please? It seems very plausible, though if they are seperate companies, I don't think it counts as a monopoly... what would prevent Campingaz getting someone else to do the job?
Therefore it's a monopoly. Retailers probably don't make a great deal on refills . Those that charge a little less probably ordering larger quantities.
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It's not a monopoly. There are alternative suppliers of gas (Flogas, J-gas, Gas-uk etc) and alternatives to the Campingaz R907, either a refillable (as discussed) or by switching to a different sized bottle...

Turning it round: what would you think would be reasonable? Should continental boatbuilders have gas lockers suitable for the British market? Do you think there's a market for cheaper R907/904/901 sized refills? If so, what is stopping you from serving it (if it were a monopoly there would be a barrier to entry)?
The R901 is illustrative: the price of gas in an R901 refill is well over £30/Kg... but nothing else is as convenient... maybe there's money to be made supplying R901 sized refills more cheaply? They are not easy to find...
 
whaup said:
Do you have a reference to back that up, please? It seems very plausible, though if they are separate companies, I don't think it counts as a monopoly... what would prevent Campingaz getting someone else to do the job?
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The marina owner informed me a couple of years ago that Calor had the contract for Campingaz refills. Not everything is published on the internet.
Campingaz could use another supplier or they could do it themselves. But one way or another there is only one source (as far as I know).
I heard of someone starting up a cylinder refill service and used one once - but next time I needed a refill he had been forced to stop. I may be wrong but don't think it is possible to independently set up a business refilling Calor or Campingaz cylinders.
I don't believe you can take a Calor or Campingaz cylinder to any other bottle gas supplier for a refill , such as Flogas for example.

whaup said:
Should continental boatbuilders have gas lockers suitable for the British market?
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Do you assume my boat is from a continental boat builder ? It's a UK built boat .

whaup said:
........or by switching to a different sized bottle...
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That doesn't work for me due to the gas locker on the boat - other than the Gaslow refillable is a possibility (except that would be lpg ) . Is there any other alternative ?
 
We had had problems getting a new tank of orange calor (swap) even before the pandemic started. Supply seemed very patchy - Shotley went months without having a new full bottle that we could swap for.
 
MartynG said:
... Is there any other alternative ?
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Try this:
Cadac Trio Gas Supply Power Pak With Removable Hose : Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors

May or may not fit depending on the exact size+shape of your locker...
The 220g cartridges can be bulk bought from many different suppliers- you should be able to get gas for well under £10/Kg, as they don't have the logistics and safety-checks on the cylinders for refilling and you're likely already paying for disposal through your council tax.
I'm sure there are other alternatives, too... you can get adapters that let you use 450g disposables on a regulator, for example, and again those are widely available discounted.
If you visit France regularly you can get campingaz refills more cheaply in their supermarkets, I believe.
 
MartynG said:
That doesn't work for me due to the gas locker on the boat - other than the Gaslow refillable is a possibility (except that would be lpg ) . Is there any other alternative ?
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My gas locker was designed to take 2 x 4.5k bottles. It has a glassed in moulded base with a vent to drain away any gas.
It would require major grinding out of the internal mouldings to accomodate any physically bigger bottles with higher capacity.
This is in addition to the expence of purchasing from Calor a bigger bottle
From memory it was two years ago that first discovered that no replacement bottles were around, this despite being on the North Kent coast, an area with more caravans and boats than the rest of this Sceptred Isle put togther.
Trying far and wide (40 Miles) and the Calor Website :LOL:and running out of mates with bottles with a little left in the bottom then buying adaptors, scrounging a empty 907 bottle then getting it filled, gave up.
Even considered dragging my monster eyesore 13Kilo BBQ gas bottle aboard and chucking a cover over it.
Bought a second propane bottle from Gumtree £25.00 (30 miles to the west )and managed to persuade a gas supplier ( 30 miles away to the East) to rummage through his stock to find the single bottle £18.50 he seemed to remember was out there somewhere.
The sheer delight at spotting that dusty red bottle in its cage.
The real dilemma, what to do with 2 x 4.5k butane bottles, flog or keep, what happens if propane supply hits the fan.
Anybody have any recall about any of this in the boaty press..
 
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oldgit said:
..
Trying far and wide (40 Miles) and the Calor Website ...
The real dilemma, what to do with 2 x 4.5k butane bottles, flog or keep, what happens if propane supply hits the fan.
...
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Have Calor's issues in your area meant that alternative suppliers have been cleared out, too? FloGas have outlets around the country (e.g. Faversham, Canterbury). Looks like there's an independent called Novagas in your general vicinity (Ashford?) that delivers.
 
whaup said:
Have Calor's issues in your area meant that alternative suppliers have been cleared out, too? FloGas have outlets around the country (e.g. Faversham, Canterbury). Looks like there's an independent called Novagas in your general vicinity (Ashford?) that delivers.
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Flogas dealer on Isle of Sheppey. Sheppey Caravans.
His Flogas was listed as 50p cheaper than the Calor equivalent.
 
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