Calmac & fog - are they turning into wimps?

[dunedin]

Calmac used to have a (fearsome?) reputation for proceeding in all weathers to get their hardy passengers to their destinations, in spite of whatever the weather gods threw at them - perhaps a bit late, perhaps a bit shaken up (and minus lunch), but safely and where they wanted to get to. But seems to have changed ?

Recently I heard on the BBC that the Tarbert Portavadie ferry was "cancelled till further notice, due to fog". (And had heard similar "delays or cancellations" earlier in the year even for the main Rothesay ferry.)
Listening to this on the car radio as the Edinburgh / Glasgow bus hammered past me at 60mph through the fog on the M8, I wondered ..... why can't a relatively slow speed Calmac ferry proceed, albeit at reduced speed and making appropriate sound signals, in a bit of fog ?
I could understand why a ferry like the one in the Sound of Harris could be fog bound, as it needs to navigating an intricate course through shallow channels past rocks. Ditto I can see why a high speed ferry in the Channel Islands should go a LOT slower in their dangerous waters.

But the Tarbert Portavadie route has a low speed ferry, with radar and GPS, doing a relatively simple & safe route in quiet, minimal tide waters - and with high ground by both terminals allowing easy validation of position for docking via radar if necessary.

Also, as soon as strong winds are forecast, everything other than the hardy types on the Stornoway ferry seem to be cancelled more frequently than ever before.

Is the famed Calmac going soft ? (And this was before they used Uist rock and visitor pontoons as a means of slowing

 

[mainsail1]

IMHO the whole of the UK has 'gone soft', partly because of no win no fee litigation, so why should Calmac ferries be any different?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Calmac used to have a (fearsome?) reputation for proceeding in all weathers to get their hardy passengers to their destinations, in spite of whatever the weather gods threw at them - perhaps a bit late, perhaps a bit shaken up (and minus lunch), but safely and where they wanted to get to. But seems to have changed ?

Recently I heard on the BBC that the Tarbert Portavadie ferry was "cancelled till further notice, due to fog". (And had heard similar "delays or cancellations" earlier in the year even for the main Rothesay ferry.)

My return home from my summer cruise this year was complicated by the Rothesay - Wemyss Bay ferry's cancellation due to fog. It was all a bit odd = Port Bannatyne was warm and sunny, but when I went to Rothesay to check the situation the town was in thick mist and apparently at Wemyss Bay they couldn't see the ferry from the windows at the end of the pier. I really didn't blame them for cancelling. I went home via Rhubodach and Western Ferries. I was really quite surprised that WF were running as there wasn't much more than a ferry's length of visibility at any point on the crossing/ Perhaps they assumed that the fog would deter the large number of small boats generally to be found in that area?

 

[Sandyman]

Like everything else it would seem these days, we are ruled by money men and in this case by insurance policy conditions.

 

[scottie]

I think that 6" of ice is required to stop WF sailings

 

[Sandyman]

''- are they turning into wimps? ''
You mean like the rest of the Uk male popualation ? I blame it on there being to many female hormones in the water supply.

 

[Clydewanderer]

Calmac used to have a (fearsome?) reputation for proceeding in all weathers to get their hardy passengers to their destinations, in spite of whatever the weather gods threw at them - perhaps a bit late, perhaps a bit shaken up (and minus lunch), but safely and where they wanted to get to. But seems to have changed ?

Recently I heard on the BBC that the Tarbert Portavadie ferry was "cancelled till further notice, due to fog". (And had heard similar "delays or cancellations" earlier in the year even for the main Rothesay ferry.)
Listening to this on the car radio as the Edinburgh / Glasgow bus hammered past me at 60mph through the fog on the M8, I wondered ..... why can't a relatively slow speed Calmac ferry proceed, albeit at reduced speed and making appropriate sound signals, in a bit of fog ?
I could understand why a ferry like the one in the Sound of Harris could be fog bound, as it needs to navigating an intricate course through shallow channels past rocks. Ditto I can see why a high speed ferry in the Channel Islands should go a LOT slower in their dangerous waters.

But the Tarbert Portavadie route has a low speed ferry, with radar and GPS, doing a relatively simple & safe route in quiet, minimal tide waters - and with high ground by both terminals allowing easy validation of position for docking via radar if necessary.

Also, as soon as strong winds are forecast, everything other than the hardy types on the Stornoway ferry seem to be cancelled more frequently than ever before.

Is the famed Calmac going soft ? (And this was before they used Uist rock and visitor pontoons as a means of slowing

You forgot to mention that the Largs to Cumbrae ferry wont depart Largs in darkness if there is a power cut on Cumbrae, because there wont be lights at the Cumbrae slip.

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

Only this year they got the next 8 years' contract... why bother wrapping a boat round a pier if it makes no difference to passenger numbers?

edit add:
Or, more to the point, they are subsidised (actually sailing is a loss) and there is no penalty for the occasional cancellation provided they have an excuse.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Or, more to the point, they are subsidised (actually sailing is a loss) and there is no penalty for the occasional cancellation provided they have an excuse.

All the performance figures for Calmac are online - Wemyss Bay to Rothesay is at https://www.calmac.co.uk/media/1438/Wemyss-Bay---Rothesay/pdf/Wemyss_Bay-Rothesay_2016.pdf, up to the end of June. Apart from a glitch in April, which saw 52 out of 906 sailings cancelled (from memory there was a serious engine problem with one of the ferries) the service is really pretty reliable.

 

[JumbleDuck]

''- are they turning into wimps? ''
You mean like the rest of the Uk male popualation ? I blame it on there being to many female hormones in the water supply.

The notion that women are by definition wimps is a bit out of date, old boy.

 

[ffiill]

When we lived in Rothesay back in the 90s the main ferry did run in all weathers.
The Pioneer built as an oil rig supply vessel had water tight doors onto the car deck so quite often with the lorries chained down in bad weather it would head out of wyemes bay down the Clyde Estuary in the teeth of a gale slowly gaining the shelter from Bute and waiting for some low waves excecute a 120 degree turn back into Rothesay Bay.
If it got it wrong the car deck took the wave along with anyone not in the know.
Watching sometimes from my home up on Canada Hill it looked very spectacular.
On other occasions the ferry diverted to Greenock

 

[JumbleDuck]

When we lived in Rothesay back in the 90s the main ferry did run in all weathers.
The Pioneer built as an oil rig supply vessel had water tight doors onto the car deck so quite often with the lorries chained down in bad weather it would head out of wyemes bay down the Clyde Estuary in the teeth of a gale slowly gaining the shelter from Bute and waiting for some low waves excecute a 120 degree turn back into Rothesay Bay.
If it got it wrong the car deck took the wave along with anyone not in the know.
Watching sometimes from my home up on Canada Hill it looked very spectacular.
On other occasions the ferry diverted to Greenock

The Pioneer was built as car ferry, but for the Islay route so she could indeed cope with pretty foul weather. She was basically a tougher version (no side ramp, props instead of Voith-Schneiders) of the "streaker" design used for the Juno and Jupiter (Gourock - Dunoon) in the same year and for the Saturn (Wemyss Bay - Rothesay) four years later. The Saturn is now the Orcadia, doing ferry and rig supply work around the Pentland Firth, while the Pioneer as the Brenda Corlett serves São Tomé and Príncipe in the Gulf of Guinea. I miss the streakers. They were nice ships to travel on and the mythological names of the three Clyde boats were a welcome but sadly brief return to a tradition of imaginative naming.

Those who don't know the place might be surprised at how wild the crossing to Rothesay can be. I've been on the Argyll when she was taking waves clean over the bow going round Toward. Greenock diversions still happen regularly, particularly in the winter, and the service ran from Greenock for the whole of last winter as Wemyss Bay pier was being repaired.

 

[Uricanejack]

I am surprised by the suggestion of a complete cancelation due to "fog".
Depending upon the status of the navigation equipment on the bridge, a sailing or a days sailings may be canceled due to a failed RADAR and "fog". presuming when its fixed they would start sailing again.
It is an additional risk, which is why there is a whole rule about fog and another one about safe speed. Leading me to assume when my local ferry is "on time" and its fog.
They Are not actually complying with those rules.
Living on an Island if its fog I expect the ferry to run and probably be a bit late due to "fog".
They occasionally shut down when its foggy but due to an equipment failure.

It is quite noticeable, They are much more likely to shut down when strong winds are forecast. Years ago they would keep going. After a couple of well publicised trips where the punters were terrified. Along with a few well publicised hard landings.
They have appear to have more stringent operational limits.

Which sometimes are quite inconvenient. Just part of life on an Island

 

[JumbleDuck]

I am surprised by the suggestion of a complete cancelation due to "fog".

Clyde ferries operate through busy waters with many small leisure craft which may not show up on radar. Mind you, not many of them will be out in fog.

 

[Uricanejack]

Clyde ferries operate through busy waters with many small leisure craft which may not show up on radar. Mind you, not many of them will be out in fog.

The waters here are just as busy with lots of small vessels. once upon a time most would have not ventured out in fog.
today with the availability of hand held GPS and even cell phones giving your position. There are lots of them out in "fog"
Often small fast motor boats heading to and from a favourite fishing hole. At high speed.
Its not unexpected when travelling in fog for the ferry to suddenly go into full astern, I come out the lounge and see a small sport fisherman come out the "fog"

To some extent I think the availability of cheep GPS has made things less safe rather than improved boat safety. As far as I know they haven't hit any one in "fog" locally. Though a ferry in the San Juan's had a collision with a small cruiser a couple of years ago.
And there have been a few near misses.

 

[[70521]]

Calmac used to have a (fearsome?) reputation for proceeding in all weathers to get their hardy passengers to their destinations, in spite of whatever the weather gods threw at them - perhaps a bit late, perhaps a bit shaken up (and minus lunch), but safely and where they wanted to get to. But seems to have changed ?

All down to insurance companies in London.

 

[Aja]

Clyde ferries operate through busy waters with many small leisure craft which may not show up on radar. Mind you, not many of them will be out in fog.

The OP was questioning today though.
(A) there wasn't any fog on the Clyde
(B) I saw two boats between Gourock and Dunoon and one between Largs and Weymes (sp?) Bay all day today as it was proper Baltic out there.

Regards
Donald

 

[JumbleDuck]

The OP was questioning today though.
(A) there wasn't any fog on the Clyde
(B) I saw two boats between Gourock and Dunoon and one between Largs and Weymes (sp?) Bay all day today as it was proper Baltic out there.

Recently I heard on the BBC that the Tarbert Portavadie ferry was "cancelled till further notice, due to fog". (And had heard similar "delays or cancellations" earlier in the year even for the main Rothesay ferry.)

 

[Robert Wilson]

Calmac used to have a (fearsome?) reputation for proceeding in all weathers to get their hardy passengers to their destinations, in spite of whatever the weather gods threw at them - perhaps a bit late, perhaps a bit shaken up (and minus lunch), but safely and where they wanted to get to. But seems to have changed ?

Recently I heard on the BBC that the Tarbert Portavadie ferry was "cancelled till further notice, due to fog". (And had heard similar "delays or cancellations" earlier in the year even for the main Rothesay ferry.)
Listening to this on the car radio as the Edinburgh / Glasgow bus hammered past me at 60mph through the fog on the M8, I wondered ..... why can't a relatively slow speed Calmac ferry proceed, albeit at reduced speed and making appropriate sound signals, in a bit of fog ?
I could understand why a ferry like the one in the Sound of Harris could be fog bound, as it needs to navigating an intricate course through shallow channels past rocks. Ditto I can see why a high speed ferry in the Channel Islands should go a LOT slower in their dangerous waters.

But the Tarbert Portavadie route has a low speed ferry, with radar and GPS, doing a relatively simple & safe route in quiet, minimal tide waters - and with high ground by both terminals allowing easy validation of position for docking via radar if necessary.

Also, as soon as strong winds are forecast, everything other than the hardy types on the Stornoway ferry seem to be cancelled more frequently than ever before.

Is the famed Calmac going soft ? (And this was before they used Uist rock and visitor pontoons as a means of slowing

One day last year I saw the Ullapool-Stornoway ferry heading out past Priest Island into a fearful Southwester. I kid you not, I could see (binoculars) the bows dig right in and the props almost clear the water; then the bows reared up high enough to see clear air below them. It was the displaced spray which caught my eye - six miles out.
How the passengers, crew and cargo withstood it, I know not - but she didn't turn back!

 

[Minchsailor]

One day last year I saw the Ullapool-Stornoway ferry heading out past Priest Island into a fearful Southwester. I kid you not, I could see (binoculars) the bows dig right in and the props almost clear the water; then the bows reared up high enough to see clear air below them. It was the displaced spray which caught my eye - six miles out.
How the passengers, crew and cargo withstood it, I know not - but she didn't turn back!

Was that the Isle of Lewis, or the Loch Seaforth?