Call out the lifeboat?

[jlavery]

The issue to me is the logic in going to sea in a sailing boat without an engine.

Most cruising yachts of course have an engine, but it seems these particular racing boats don't and when the conditions are wrong for sailing they could not easily get to their destination.

Surely if they were out in some kind of race, there would be some form of powerboat as a safety / rescue boat provided by the organisers? Like clubs do to support the dinghy racing?

Is not the whole logic of sailing in a boat without an engine and without any safety boat what we should be discussing?

Those that choose to cruise in a dinghy I suspect would just accept if the weather turns foul they might not be able to reach their intended destination, and would settle for anywhere they could safely get to land. Should these racing sailors without an engine just do the same?

Looking at the photo, this is a racing boat set up for single handed. It  will have an engine, whether it was working at the time is another question. Presumably not, if "lacking engine power" is accurate.

Long distance/offshore races do not have rescue craft, it's impractical. Competitors are expected to be self sufficient, and also often go to each others aid.

 

[lustyd]

Total assets £775 of which investments £270.8m. Again, hardly a “billion pound” “money making machine.

Off to go sailing now!

Yes, as I said the markets are down and their donations are likely down too while costs have increased enormously. Most normal people would consider £775M to be close enough to a billion, given the circumstances but you've clearly been on the Kool Aid so let's agree to disagree.

 

[Tranona]

Yes, as I said the markets are down and their donations are likely down too while costs have increased enormously. Most normal people would consider £775M to be close enough to a billion, given the circumstances but you've clearly been on the Kool Aid so let's agree to disagree.

Don't think the assets have ever been anywhere near £Ibillion - and although markets are down compared with a few weeks ago, they are up substantially from from 2021.

It is a big, well funded organisation - but then it needs to be to do the range of work that it commits to.

How else would you suggest its services should be funded?

Also off sailing now - passing the RNLI headquarters on the way and probably seeing training exercises being carried out in the harbour. Last week it was learning how to tow a 45' motor cruiser with a D class inflatable.

 

[Mark-1]

Looking at the photo, this is a racing boat set up for single handed. It  will have an engine, whether it was working at the time is another question. Presumably not, if "lacking engine power" is accurate.

Long distance/offshore races do not have rescue craft, it's impractical. Competitors are expected to be self sufficient, and also often go to each others aid.

Do the Mini Transat class rules require an inboard engine? Or an engine at all? On reflection it seems entirely possible they carry no engine or only a stowed outboard with 3 litres of fuel or an electric OB with equally limited range.

Google doesn't answer the question, I'd love to know.

 

[zoidberg]

Those that choose to cruise in a dinghy I suspect would just accept if the weather turns foul they might not be able to reach their intended destination, and would settle for anywhere they could safely get to land. Should these racing sailors without an engine just do the same?

'Speculate, speculate, speculate....'

Surely that's what this place does best.... or, 'most'.

It could be that the two Frenchie Mini-sailors rather fancied a bit o' the craic and, with dire warnings about 'the impending' emanating from Meteo-France, they chose to 'do the prudent' - and chose the tourist route. And quite right. They'd certainly be made welcome in the Waterford Harbour club.

Or there again, perhaps they'd run out of Gauloises and 'jambon sec' - which is what some of them seem to subsist on* - and decided that was close enuff to an emergency to yelp for help....


* not at all a flight of imagination. One young Breton sailed the Jesters Azores Challenge, and brilliantly, right through the centre of of a big, persistent Atlantic low that sent almost all t'others scuttling for shelter or 'round the outside' a couple of extra weeks. He carried, as I recall, some Gauloises, jambon sec, cheese fromage and, er, that's it. Encroyable!

 

[DFL1010]

Do the Mini Transat class rules require an inboard engine? Or an engine at all? On reflection it seems entirely possible they carry no engine or only a stowed outboard with 3 litres of fuel or an electric OB with equally limited range.

Google doesn't answer the question, I'd love to know.

Only ever seen them with outboards on the transom (4-5hp ish). IB would be too heavy, not to mention there's not a huge amount of room inside one at the best of times!

Class rules here: Classe Mini

 

[HughClayton]

Yes, as I said the markets are down and their donations are likely down too while costs have increased enormously. Most normal people would consider £775M to be close enough to a billion, given the circumstances but you've clearly been on the Kool Aid so let's agree to disagree.

The majority of the rest of their assets are their tangible assets - in other words lifeboats and stations.

So if you had a billion quid and the wherewithal to get 1000’s of people to volunteer for many decades and tens of thousands to donate then you could recreate the RNLI. But if you don’t and quite like what they do then you might like to avoid posting things that aren’t correct.

Enough said.

 

[lustyd]

The majority of the rest of their assets are their tangible assets

Did you even read my posts?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Looking at the photo, this is a racing boat set up for single handed. It  will have an engine, whether it was working at the time is another question. Presumably not, if "lacking engine power" is accurate.

Long distance/offshore races do not have rescue craft, it's impractical. Competitors are expected to be self sufficient, and also often go to each others aid.

No. mini 6.50s do not have inboard engines and are normally towed out of harbour for races so no outboard either.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Do the Mini Transat class rules require an inboard engine? Or an engine at all? On reflection it seems entirely possible they carry no engine or only a stowed outboard with 3 litres of fuel or an electric OB with equally limited range.

Google doesn't answer the question, I'd love to know.

Go to the Classe Mini website where all the rules can be downloaded. No inboard, no requirement for an outboard.

 

[jlavery]

No. mini 6.50s do not have inboard engines and are normally towed out of harbour for races so no outboard either.

Wow, I didn't know that!

 

[zoidberg]

No. mini 6.50s do not have inboard engines and are normally towed out of harbour for races so no outboard either.

....and often as not, they're towed back in again. This all started with Oppies....
So it's within the the normal Froggie Mini sailor's experience that getting a tow into harbour is just a normal part of sailing - and they may have been briefed that, "in doubt, just head into any Irish port."

 

[ylop]

The majority of the rest of their assets are their tangible assets - in other words lifeboats and stations.

So if you had a billion quid and the wherewithal to get 1000’s of people to volunteer for many decades and tens of thousands to donate then you could recreate the RNLI. But if you don’t and quite like what they do then you might like to avoid posting things that aren’t correct.

Enough said.

The usual RNLI is like a religion and anything which might be hinted at as criticism is basically blasphemy response!

an argument whether just shy of 800M is a Billion missed a much more valid criticism of the RNLI marketing machine. The organisation is so well known and prolific in the media that fund raising by other lifeboat organisations is disproportionately hard. There are numerous independent lifeboats which operate for many reasons, sometime plugging a perceived gap in RNLI coverage, sometimes intentionally avoiding RNLI governance (for better or worse) and sometimes because they have different but similar objectives. It’s always struck me that the RNLI could, and perhaps should, offer grants to other independent lifeboats reflecting the fact they must make it hard for others and share the same bigger purpose. Eg, I don’t doubt that if the Loch Lomond Rescue Boat was to close the RNLI would see sufficient risk and step in to create a station.

 

[ProDave]

So this thread is saying it is okay to set sail in a sail boat without an engine, knowing you will need a tow to get out of each harbour and a tow to get into the next harbour, and if you have not arranged a tow at your destination, it is okay to call that nice RNLI lot to give you your tow?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

So this thread is saying it is okay to set sail in a sail boat without an engine, knowing you will need a tow to get out of each harbour and a tow to get into the next harbour, and if you have not arranged a tow at your destination, it is okay to call that nice RNLI lot to give you your tow?

I don't think this thread is saying any of that. This thread is discussing the incidents and clarifying the way the racing class operate.

 

[zoidberg]

So this thread is saying it is okay to set sail in a sail boat without an engine, knowing you will need a tow to get out of each harbour and a tow to get into the next harbour, and if you have not arranged a tow at your destination, it is okay to call that nice RNLI lot to give you your tow?

No. This thread is saying it was intended to invite informed opinion and share those thoughts....

 

[Tranona]

No. This thread is saying it was intended to invite informed opinion and share those thoughts....

Quite right, but it means that some people take the opportunity to get on their hobby horses without really having a clue about the background to the incident. In some ways the RNLI is its own worst enemy by pumping out press releases that make it look as if only they are the saviours when in reality (as some have pointed out) it is the Coastguard that decides what sort of assets are tasked.

We rarely hear in the immediate aftermath about what goes on before the lifeboat or helicopter or whatever is launched, although many of the television programmes do cover this. From personal experience of the two occasions when I had to call the Coastguard in situations requiring assistance but not life threatening a lot goes on before the decision is arrived at. In one case another nearby boat provided assistance by way of a tow and the second an RNLI Atlantic came to the rescue (cutting me free from a string of pot)s.

I assume in this case the Irish coastguard would have weighed up the situation and decided the lifeboat was the most effective thing to help the lone sailors.

 

[Plum]

Quite right, but it means that some people take the opportunity to get on their hobby horses without really having a clue about the background to the incident. In some ways the RNLI is its own worst enemy by pumping out press releases that make it look as if only they are the saviours when in reality (as some have pointed out) it is the Coastguard that decides what sort of assets are tasked.

We rarely hear in the immediate aftermath about what goes on before the lifeboat or helicopter or whatever is launched, although many of the television programmes do cover this. From personal experience of the two occasions when I had to call the Coastguard in situations requiring assistance but not life threatening a lot goes on before the decision is arrived at. In one case another nearby boat provided assistance by way of a tow and the second an RNLI Atlantic came to the rescue (cutting me free from a string of pot)s.

I assume in this case the Irish coastguard would have weighed up the situation and decided the lifeboat was the most effective thing to help the lone sailors.

Well said.

 

[davidej]

I don’t want to belittle the very dedicated volunteers who make some very brave rescues in challenging conditions. But don’t underestimate their desire to go on a shout when it is a jolly to collect some idiot paddleboader who has drifted too far out on an offshore wind or similar.

Anyway it’s good training and the RNLI can afford the fuel.

 

[Stemar]

I don’t want to belittle the very dedicated volunteers who make some very brave rescues in challenging conditions. But don’t underestimate their desire to go on a shout when it is a jolly to collect some idiot paddleboader who has drifted too far out on an offshore wind or similar.

Anyway it’s good training and the RNLI can afford the fuel.

No one in their right mind wouldn't prefer "a jolly to collect some idiot paddleboader" to F11 and a tanker on the rocks.