Cables clanging inside mast.

[smb]

None of the cables from my masthead are are supported in anyway. They enter beside the sheaves and exit via holes drilled in the forward face just above the deck. The only thing holding them up is their fittings into their repective aerials/lights.

When we roll at anchor the noise from the cables is loud and annoying, an unwelcome rythmic clanging that gets on my proverbials. I have been looking in the archives for soultions but none seem ideal without taking the mast down. I have in the past tried using large cable ties fixed to a redundant topping lift with their tails intact, but this only provided slight and shortlived relief.

My next idea is to try and capture the cables at 2-3 points and secure them to the front of the mast. To do this i plan to drill pairs of holes apout 3in apart on the mast circumference, with one an inch or so higher than the other.
I will then attach a loop of cotton to the pointed end of one cable tie, probably using a hot needle to pierce a hole.
At the pointed end of another tie i will make a notch similar to that of a crochet needle.
The tie with the thread will be inserted first in such a way that it should go to the far side of the hanging cables, and then levered central.
The tie with the hook will then go fishing for the thread. Once contact is made the first tie is drawn out and made tight, and we should have a bunch of cables held against the inside of the mast.

I think 3 fixing points over a 13m mast should do it, and will take care to sand down the cut end of the ties to prevent chafe on my genoa.

My concern is really about drilling extra holes in the mast for this, and whether the cut edges need treating to prevent corrosion.



Steve




Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome


Steve

 

[alteredoutlook]

doesn't your mast have separate conduits for cables?

 

[MoodySabre]

Aren't you going to have difficulty getting them on front of the mast without fouling halyards?

If you were to put something round the cable where it enters the top of mast (in the style of a cable gripper in a plug) then perhaps you could apply some tension downwards and put another gripper at the exit point.

 

[chewi]

doesn't your mast have separate conduits for cables?

plenty do not.

I spent hrs last weekend helping with one where the now severed cable was wrappedin a foam tube and had ocasional turns of tape around the dead cable that caught on the foam and compressed it to a manky cludge.

I had to pick through that with a long screwdiver just to get the old wire out, getting the new cable thro' the foam was another matter....

if only it had a conduit, or that I could get the foot off it.

 

[prv]

doesn't your mast have separate conduits for cables?

Not all do.

I looked up the Selden instructions for running cables when I did mine (which does have a couple of small conduits). For some of the mast extrusions in the leaflet, they could only recommend putting a flexible tube on the end of a sikaflex nozzle, poke it in through the sail track and bend through a bit over 90 degrees, then run a bead of adhesive down the aft outer corner of the inside to stick the cables to.

OP's method seems reasonable to me, if a bit agricultural. Pairs of small holes shouldn't be a problem, people rivet all kinds of things to the fronts of their masts, and aluminium generates its own protective oxide coating.

Pete

 

[dylanwinter]

the slug had a slapping cable

it had to go

I replaced it with a masthead light on a stick

worked fine for the few times I needed it

 

[nigelmercier]

If you can pull each cable through, then attach 3 cable ties at 120° to each other.

 

[winsbury]

None of the cables from my masthead are are supported in anyway. They enter beside the sheaves and exit via holes drilled in the forward face just above the deck. The only thing holding them up is their fittings into their repective aerials/lights.

When we roll at anchor the noise from the cables is loud and annoying, an unwelcome rythmic clanging that gets on my proverbials. I have been looking in the archives for soultions but none seem ideal without taking the mast down. I have in the past tried using large cable ties fixed to a redundant topping lift with their tails intact, but this only provided slight and shortlived relief.

My next idea is to try and capture the cables at 2-3 points and secure them to the front of the mast. To do this i plan to drill pairs of holes apout 3in apart on the mast circumference, with one an inch or so higher than the other.
I will then attach a loop of cotton to the pointed end of one cable tie, probably using a hot needle to pierce a hole.
At the pointed end of another tie i will make a notch similar to that of a crochet needle.
The tie with the thread will be inserted first in such a way that it should go to the far side of the hanging cables, and then levered central.
The tie with the hook will then go fishing for the thread. Once contact is made the first tie is drawn out and made tight, and we should have a bunch of cables held against the inside of the mast.

I think 3 fixing points over a 13m mast should do it, and will take care to sand down the cut end of the ties to prevent chafe on my genoa.

My concern is really about drilling extra holes in the mast for this, and whether the cut edges need treating to prevent corrosion.



Steve




Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome


Steve

I would be wary of using nylon cable ties for this application - you will have 3-4 meter sections of cable that will still be reasonably free to move between the tie points, these will chafe on the edges of the cable tie and eventually will cut through the insulation. Cable ties work great provided the cables cant move, ie they need to be used a quite close regular intervals. I would suggest that a thin rope or perhaps shock cord would give a more forgiving method of holding the wires at these larger intervals and would be much easier on your genoa too. Threading could be done with a piece of coat-hanger wire or similar.

 

[daveyw]

My boat has the same problem. I thought I might tie bits of sponge at 5 footish intervals on a bit of rope and lead it up the inside of the mast.

 

[dylanwinter]

My boat has the same problem. I thought I might tie bits of sponge at 5 footish intervals on a bit of rope and lead it up the inside of the mast.

wow

good plan

sounds as though that might work

D

 

[V1701]

I used the opportunity of removing the NASA wind unit cable to send a rope down the inside of the mast, to which I attached a load of cable ties (in 3s @120 degrees to each other every foot & a half or so) then pulled it back up the mast & secured at the top. Primitive but it solved the clanging...

 

[oldharry]

I used the opportunity of removing the NASA wind unit cable to send a rope down the inside of the mast, to which I attached a load of cable ties (in 3s @120 degrees to each other every foot & a half or so) then pulled it back up the mast & secured at the top. Primitive but it solved the clanging...

Beaten me to it: this solution works perfectly every time, and is simple to remove should a cable ever need replacing.

OPs original idea sounds as though it ought to work - but isnt so easy. 3 ties over 13m is not enough to stop the noise - he would need at least six.

And threading the ties through small holes is..... well, a quick ticket to the funny farm! I found it almost totally impossible to catch the cables, then catch the end of the tie again. Making the hole big enough to be able to do it easily means big holes. Not a good idea.

 

[smb]

Thanks for the replies. In no particular order:-

I had not considered chafe from cable ties so might go with the shock cord idea - thanks for that one. That being said, last time I checked therewas no chafe at the entry and exit points.
I'm reasonably confident that by tensioniong the halyards I can keep them to the rear and sides of the mast.
Each of the 5 cables exits from its own bare hole at the base of the mast, extracting them to bunch them together and fit 3 ties at regular intervals and then refitting is going to be some job. Maybe next time the mast is down.
Ive seen the sponge solution before, but concerned the halyards would erode the sponge over time leading to a sodden stinky mess at the mast foot.
I have tried the rope with cable ties and it worked for a short while but then the ties seemed to lose their zing and I was back to square 1.
I like agricutural. Thanks for confirming the holes wont bring the mast down. Did i say each would 3'' diameter
I also like the principle of tensioning either end, but wonder if the amount of tension needed would be unfair strain and compression on the cables, especially crushing the dielectric of the vhf cable.

Looks like its time to rig the chair and plug in the black and decker!

Steve

 

[TradewindSailor]

My mast is about 58' ..... and yes I had a problem with clanging cables.

Sponge wouldn't have worked because I have internal haulyards.

I tried the cable ties too, but the mast section was probably too big .... they didn't last.

I also tried putting a new plastic tube up the mast, but I couldn't even get the old broken one down due to the through bolts at various points that I was unwilling to mess with.

The solution that worked for my mast was to tie the cables to the aft of the mast .... this is where they lie naturally due to the prebend and they are out of the way of the haulyards {I hate spell checkers that can't spell!!!!}. There are a number of points to consider before drilling though:
Don't drill holes so close to the track that the cars/slides can't run passed after the cord ties are knotted.
Have a look at your mast. There are often convenient locations where haulyards pass though that can be utilised to see what's going on inside the mast, and later to catch and manipulate the cables. Drilling attachment holes by the track at these heights could save a great deal of trouble.
I found that drilling a hole in the forward edge of the mast, opposite of the attachment hole, worked well because I could easily pass a stiff rod through the mast with a 3mm cord taped to the end. I could then wait until the cables swung to pass the rod back through the mast neatly lassoing the cables in the process. The stiff rod had the advantage of being strong enough to steer pass the haulyards. The cord was then knotted off on the aft of the mast.
Since there are usually internal braces in way of the spreaders, it is unlikely that the cable will need support here .... not much room to move. Mid-height between spreaders will be most effective.
The holes in the front of the mast should be filled to stop water/rain entering if the mast is keel stepped. A rubber grommet would suite .... or a piece of Ducktape (although it doesn't last long).

 

[cimo]

Rather than tensioning the cables, I created more slack; extended the cables 1/2 meter or so & pushed the excess lenght back into the mast.
(cables runs in conduit for top half of the mast, loose & unbound for the lower half).
no more cabel clanging.

 

[smb]

My mast is about 58' ..... and yes I had a problem with clanging cables.

Sponge wouldn't have worked because I have internal haulyards.

I tried the cable ties too, but the mast section was probably too big .... they didn't last.

I also tried putting a new plastic tube up the mast, but I couldn't even get the old broken one down due to the through bolts at various points that I was unwilling to mess with.

The solution that worked for my mast was to tie the cables to the aft of the mast .... this is where they lie naturally due to the prebend and they are out of the way of the haulyards {I hate spell checkers that can't spell!!!!}. There are a number of points to consider before drilling though:
Don't drill holes so close to the track that the cars/slides can't run passed after the cord ties are knotted.
Have a look at your mast. There are often convenient locations where haulyards pass though that can be utilised to see what's going on inside the mast, and later to catch and manipulate the cables. Drilling attachment holes by the track at these heights could save a great deal of trouble.
I found that drilling a hole in the forward edge of the mast, opposite of the attachment hole, worked well because I could easily pass a stiff rod through the mast with a 3mm cord taped to the end. I could then wait until the cables swung to pass the rod back through the mast neatly lassoing the cables in the process. The stiff rod had the advantage of being strong enough to steer pass the haulyards. The cord was then knotted off on the aft of the mast.
Since there are usually internal braces in way of the spreaders, it is unlikely that the cable will need support here .... not much room to move. Mid-height between spreaders will be most effective.
The holes in the front of the mast should be filled to stop water/rain entering if the mast is keel stepped. A rubber grommet would suite .... or a piece of Ducktape (although it doesn't last long).

Thanks for confirming the theor is sound - I like the idea of cord and rod with a hole opposite. If I have it correctly it will work something like the shuttle on a loom. In my case the section of mast most clear od halyard is fwd to starboard so thats where I will drill.

I have in the past made slight improvements by poking every last bit of slack into the mast but I only have inches to spare as most of the cables terminate at deck level.except the radar, and that barely makes it to the display and its 30+ connections.

regards

Steve.

 

[maxi]

Old plastic badminton shuttles threaded onto the cables work very well, but it is an interesting evolution to get them into the mast in the first place - if the mast is still stepped.

 

[theoldsalt]

I read somewhere some time ago of someone drilling small holes at intervals up his mast and injecting builders foam into the mast. During the curing process he kept moving his halyards to ensure they were not trapped by the foam. However I have no idea how successful/ridiculous this solution turned out to be.

 

[Avocet]

I read somewhere some time ago of someone drilling small holes at intervals up his mast and injecting builders foam into the mast. During the curing process he kept moving his halyards to ensure they were not trapped by the foam. However I have no idea how successful/ridiculous this solution turned out to be.

Nooooo!!!!! WHATEVER you do, don't do that!!! I tried it with Avocet's mast once. That stuff is so sticky, it's impossible to NOT get it to stick to the cables. It stopped the slapping very well, but one winter, when the mast was on a couple of trestles, some kind git must have brushed past it and snapped the VHF aerial. I then spent THREE DAYS with a drain auger up the mast trying to chew out the foam so I could change the cable!

I subsequently used the three cable ties at 120 degrees and it has worked fine, but my mast is only just under 30' tall.