Cable Ferry Collision in Sweden

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MattK1969

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Hi All
I was unfortunately involved in hitting the cable of a cable ferry in Sweden in a British Registered boat. Lost the rudder. Replacement cost about £ 7500 through insurance. Uninsured losses approx £ 1500.

I was using a garmin plotter. The plotter showed a ferry, but not a cable ferry. Garmin have confirmed it wasn't on the chart. The ferry folk swear it's on the chart.

My chart info and track is shown on the attached picture. I was heading North and struck the cable where my track crosses the pink ferry line, just South-West of the green channel marker. Keeping to left of channel to avoid large oncoming commercial vessel. Managed to get into dock with the bow thruster.

I would like to have a stab at getting my uninsured losses back.

Questions :
Can I use English law?
Is Garmin liable?
Is the Ferry operator liable?
Should I just forget it?

Your thoughts would be very welcome.

Matt
 

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MattK1969 said:
Hi All
I was unfortunately involved in hitting the cable of a cable ferry in Sweden in a British Registered boat. Lost the rudder. Replacement cost about £ 7500 through insurance. Uninsured losses approx £ 1500.

I was using a garmin plotter. The plotter showed a ferry, but not a cable ferry. Garmin have confirmed it wasn't on the chart. The ferry folk swear it's on the chart.

My chart info and track is shown on the attached picture. I was heading North and struck the cable where my track crosses the pink ferry line, just South-West of the green channel marker. Keeping to left of channel to avoid large oncoming commercial vessel. Managed to get into dock with the bow thruster.

I would like to have a stab at getting my uninsured losses back.

Questions :
Can I use English law?
Is Garmin liable?
Is the Ferry operator liable?
Should I just forget it?

Your thoughts would be very welcome.

Matt
Click to expand...
You are liable.

There are only two types of boaters. Those who have hit stuff and liars.

But when you hit something it doesn’t do well to try and blame someone else when it was your fault.
 
From the Garmin/Navionics website:

Navionics charts are an aid to navigation designed to facilitate the use of authorized government charts, not to replace them. Only official government charts and notices to mariners contain all information needed for the safety of navigation and, as always, the captain is responsible for their prudent use.

Garmin | United States | Navionics Support

So which authorised Govt chart were you using?
 
Furthermore: when there is a cable ferry there will, in my experience, always be warning signs on land either side of the passage.
The word in Swedish is linfärja (akin to line ferry).
If such signs were indeed missing, I think you might possibly have a case.
 
BabaYaga said:
Furthermore: when there is a cable ferry there will, in my experience, always be warning signs on land either side of the passage.
The word in Swedish is linfärja (akin to line ferry).
If such signs were indeed missing, I think you might possibly have a case.
Click to expand...
Against the ferry operator as he'd be liable. Not Garmin.

Added: The signage should be as below. If not in place you may have a chance in court
1690628432423.png
 
Last edited:
Just_sayin' said:
From the Garmin/Navionics website:

Navionics charts are an aid to navigation designed to facilitate the use of authorized government charts, not to replace them. Only official government charts and notices to mariners contain all information needed for the safety of navigation and, as always, the captain is responsible for their prudent use.

Garmin | United States | Navionics Support

So which authorised Govt chart were you using?
Click to expand...
That disclaimer seems pretty watertight to me, and I speak as someone who has had to write disclaimers for map data. You'd have to demonstrate that Garmin/Navionics were negligent in not providing the information, and that would be difficult if not impossible.

It's a matter I've frequently commented on - the ONLY fundamental source for chart data are the various national Hydrographic Organizations. Except for crowd sourced products such as Navionics provide - and my views on that are well known - all the data come from HOs.

You're on a hiding to nothing trying to pin blame for this on an organisation like Garmin. Apart from the fact of their disclaimer, they have better lawyers than we do.
 
Looking at Matt’s screenshot again it‘s probably not Navionics, that’s what my search pulled up but even if it’s G3 Garmin have it covered:

WARNING:
GARMIN BLUECHART, LAKEVU DATA AND BOTTOM INFORMATION ARE FOR NAVIGATION REFERENCE ONLY, AS BOTTOM CONDITIONS ARE CONTINUALLY CHANGING. THIS PRODUCT IS FOR GENERAL REFERENCE.

WARNINGS: The electronic chart is an aid to navigation designed to facilitate the use of authorized government charts, not to replace them. Only official government charts and notices to mariners contain all information needed for the safety of navigation, and as always, the captain is responsible for their prudent use.

BlueChart g3 Disclaimer | Garmin
 
AntarcticPilot said:
That disclaimer seems pretty watertight to me, and I speak as someone who has had to write disclaimers for map data. You'd have to demonstrate that Garmin/Navionics were negligent in not providing the information, and that would be difficult if not impossible.

It's a matter I've frequently commented on - the ONLY fundamental source for chart data are the various national Hydrographic Organizations. Except for crowd sourced products such as Navionics provide - and my views on that are well known - all the data come from HOs.

You're on a hiding to nothing trying to pin blame for this on an organisation like Garmin. Apart from the fact of their disclaimer, they have better lawyers than we do.
Click to expand...
Forget the lawyers. What about morals.

The OP made a mistake. We all do. It’s an accident.

Blaming someone else is morally wrong. And deliberate.

Like bumping a boat in the marina (forgivable) and not leaving your name (unforgivable)
 
The picture of the ferry is one of a floating box, not very boat like I would assume that that is wire or cable pulled.

If im not local to the area, I buy an up to date cruising guide for the area and before visiting a new to me port I read the guide also my almanac and will have a good look at it from Google satellite and street view so I have a mental picture of what to expect and what it looks like, over the top, may be, but so far its worked.
 
Usually in addition to the signs and the notice on side of the line ferry there are the flashing yellow/orange beacons (à la dust-carte anglaise?) on the ferry and you can see the cable on the 'tight side' above water or splashing on the surface as it hauls its way across - and sometimes the cable on the loose side as it enters the water. All as illustrated in the diagam in post #6 above.

I don't criticise the OP for hitting the cable - we all make mistakes maybe because we lose concentration or are distracted or just cut things too fine past an obstruction - but it can't be right to blame anyone but whoever on the boat was keeping a lookout and/or in charge of the pilotage. That's assuming the ferry was behaving properly and exhibiting the normal warnings.
 
I have always wondered about similar when crossing the upper ferry on the Dart. But one can see the angle of the wire as it exits the ferry and take appropriate action. Always give the ferry the benefit of the doubt, it is their living, mine is recreational.
 
There are quite a few chain ferries in the UK, they do to be treated with caution.

Cowes (intermittent function!)
R Fal
R Dart
Poole harbour Sandbanks

I guess if the OP had never seen one before then it’s maybe understandable that the mistake was made. Think he was lucky to get away with no worse damage.
 
Sticky Fingers said:
There are quite a few chain ferries in the UK, they do to be treated with caution.

Cowes (intermittent function!)
R Fal
R Dart
Poole harbour Sandbanks

I guess if the OP had never seen one before then it’s maybe understandable that the mistake was made. Think he was lucky to get away with no worse damage.
Click to expand...
There are an enormous number of yellow ferries in Sweden. Many are of the are roll-on roll-off free floating vessels (ie not line ferries), but there are a lot of line ferries too. If someone had seen only the former type then a line ferry might come as a surprise. Which of course is why they have warning signs on the shore and on the ferry, and flashing beacons.

By way of an aside, yellow ferries are free to use for vehicles and foot passengers (at least every one I've been on was free). That has an enormous economic benefit for island communities where people can commute to school or work, get deliveries from towns, visit sporting and cultural events and friends, etc. at no cost. Compare that to the exhorbiant cost of (for example) travelling on the Isle of Wight ferries that is a serious economic barrier for those living on the Island or wanting to visit it for business.
 
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