Buying what are all the costs to consider?

[ChiHead]

Up until now I have been a part time sailor, I currently have just a small trailered 15ft boat with a 15hp outboard that I do summer trips down to East Head and I do a week every year on the broads renting various boats as my main hobby was flying. However I have now sold the plane and looking to upgrade from the little boat to a bigger day/weekend boat to travel around the Solent area.
A big step I know and I have had so many people saying don't do it, boats are just money pits however I have to have an interest for my spare time and I get a great amount of pleasure from the limited amount of boating that I currently do.
I am well aware of the big costs involved with expensive interests/obsessions having owned a plane for almost 20 years, the big difference with boating as I see it is you can reduce the costs by doing at least some of the maintenance yourself, which is something that also appeals to me.
So the newbie question from me is are there any costs that I have not accounted in the list below...

One off purchase costs...
Deposit
Survey
Lift Out/In

Annual costs...
Berthing
Insurance
Lift Out/In
Service
Winterisation

Monthly cost...
Finance
Fuel
Electric


So what costs haven't I accounted for apart from the usual unexpected costs that will always come up, for example are there any certification or registration costs.

This forum has been a great source of info over the past few weeks, but I thought I would stop lurking and come out and ask some direct question to the people in the know, you guys.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[gordmac]

Worth bumping this.
I presume you have lifejackets etc? Confident enough to not need any training? You may need to pay for the boat to be moved depending on where you buy.
Are you planning to keep the boat ashore in the winter?
What type of boat are you considering?

 

[jrudge]

If you think flying is expensive!

The scale of costs is going to depend on how big it is, where you moor it and how much you use it.

I owned a 3rd of a Piper Arrow for 10 odd years. I own all of my boat, and for some inexplicable reason every few years it seems to get longer! The scale of cost is not even comparable. I used to do between 50-100 hours per annum. The main thing to bear in mind is that a single uses 10.5 USG per hour - 40 odd litres of admittedly expensive avgas, but a boat can use huge amounts of diesel depending on its size.


You can do you own maintenance , and parts whilst carry a marine premium are cheap compared to their certified aviation brethren. This is particularly so with electronics which are a fraction of the price.

If you can get an idea of length and engines, then approx berthing and full costs will fall out of the equation.

Also bear in mind that planes given they are all of quite a vintage do not tend to depreciate that much, but boats are not so privileged.

There are no registrations required, if you want to take it over seas the small ships register is £25. If you keep it on an inland water way you may get navigation charges ( non tidal thames for example) and require a boat safety scheme certificate.


If you can be more specific the forum will be very helpful to you. There are also lots of threads on similar topics.

 

[ChiHead]

If you think flying is expensive!

If you can get an idea of length and engines, then approx berthing and full costs will fall out of the equation.

If you can be more specific the forum will be very helpful to you. There are also lots of threads on similar topics.

Have looked at a number of boats but I am looking for something smallish yet not too cramped for me and the misses for an overnight or weekend stay over somewhere, started off looking at a Jeanneau Leader 805 but now thinking that a Regal 2465 with the smaller KAD 32 engine may be the better option from a costs perspective but I would welcome comments. I really like the social layout of these boats and there are few nice examples of both boats about, I particularly like the quality and layout of these boats compared to others of that size that I have looked at.
So length is around the 8M mark and Engine I am leaning towards a KAD32.
I am still looking at various Marina's around the Solent area and the unbelievable costs do make me gulp when I think about what you arte getting for your money but it appears to be the going price for the South Coast.
I have the basics e.g. life jackets and some other vital bits and pieces (e.g. hand held radio) from my existing boat.
I had taken for granted that any boat I buy, the first thing I would do is get some tuition and boat handling lessons on her but did not list that into the costs above.

 

[Momac]

There will be lots of bits and pieces that you will almost certainly need from time to time that will soak up your money. I find it best not to keep a written log of the expenses.

I am presently under orders from the chief officer to order and install some very expensive , but essential, navigation kit.

 

[rhino_mac]

I used to budget £7000 per year to run my boat which was a Monterey 250cr and similar in size to the boats you have mentioned. That was £4k berthing, £1000 fuel (diesel), £1000 servicing and £1000 contingency. I was on dry stack in Poole so no antifoul or lift costs. Probably add another £1000 if you want lifts/scrubs and someone to paint the bottom every season (I guess?). I also spent about £3000 over two seasons on upgrades. There's always a new toy to buy!!

 

[superheat6k]

As a very rough rule of thumb 10% of the total value of the boat equates to the annual running cost for the average boat. This % will increase for faster power boats using more fuel and drop for sailing boats using less, but for instance Mobos can find cheaper mooring deals where sailing boats can't go. Newer boats will suffer more depreciation than older, but older can suffer unpleasant surprises when expensive defects are revealed.

My first boat was a triple keel 22' sailing boat, and we extensively sailed to places later boats just could not reach, and that was cheap cheap boating.

The thing I haven't yet worked out is that as the expense of boating has increased, the difference in pleasure had now is difficult to measure from the heady days of discovery at the start of the boating ownership. I do wonder if the unexplainable urge to continue to go boating is the mind seeking the original thrill of boating, like a heroine user looking for that very first fix again.

Thing is you can't take it with you, and no point leaving it for the kids, as they will only waste it.

 

[TwoHooter]

Hi Chihead

The short answer to your question is that it really does all depend on which boat you buy and where you keep it. But that's not much help is it?

My situation is similar to yours because like you I flew a lot for 20 years and last year my wife and I bought our first boat, an elderly but sound 29' motor/sailer, presently at Birdham Pool in your neck of the woods. Perhaps our experience may be a guide.

To work out a budget the first thing is to pick a boat - any boat - which is the sort of thing you are looking for. Then get on the 'phone (the internet is almost useless) and phone round to get quotes for the things on your list. All the yards and marinas are friendly. Surveyors charge so much per foot and they are all about the same so one quote should do. Insurance costs us £220 p.a. for a £35k boat. Service, winterisation. etc. varies enormously, depends who you use. But you can soon learn to do a lot yourself.

Fuel is a huge variable depending on what boat you buy and how fast you drive it. We burn tiny amounts of diesel doing 6 knots on our Beta30 engine. But we have had to spend money on sails and rigging. Sailboats are not necessarily cheaper to run than motorboats. If money is an issue I would say do NOT buy a big, heavy, fast, twin-engine planing or semi-displacement motorboat because of the fuel costs, and don't buy anything with stern drives or pods because of the maintenance costs.

We have spent more than we expected on sundries like charts, lines, fire extinguishers, etc. Every trip to the chandler costs at least £100! But then look at the cost of a 1:500,000 aviation chart, a check ride with an instructor, and the CAA licence fees.

My current flying club is cheap - £120/hr for a PA28 - and I used to do 50 hrs pa., so say £6k p.a. So far I would say that boating is costing a bit more. I am budgeting £7k for the boat this year. This does not include depreciation, travel expenses to and from the boat, or normal living expenses while on board. But that doesn't buy 50 hours. It buys day after day of fun and relaxation. In our first summer in addition to trips around Chichester Harbour we have been to Bembridge for a lovely 5 days on the IOW, Portsmouth for a long weekend visiting all the attractions (Haslar marina), and Southampton for the boat show (Hythe marina). It pays to keep your boat at a marina which is part of a group offering reduced visitor charges.

I don't regret my flying. Far from it. I flew solo to Africa once, including an unforgettable sortie along the deserted beach from Casablanca to Rabat, flying 6" above the sand. But most of the time light aircraft typically fly you at heights where you can't really see the scenery to windswept bleak out-of-the-way aerodromes where the food is **** and nobody gives you the time of day. While we were at Bembridge last summer we walked round to the airfield where we endured a meal in the usual greasy spoon cafe and watched a light aircraft come in from Germany - nobody said a word to the pilot or his passengers and they didn't look pleased about the food either. A boat can take you to lovely places. We could never afford a second home with the same views we enjoy at Birdham or on the visitor pontoon at Itchenor, and everyone we have met so far has been welcoming and helpful. I was going to buy another plane but I've changed my mind. Boating is better than flying, I think. And is costing me about 15% more.

 

[longjohnsilver]

As a very rough rule of thumb 10% of the total value of the boat equates to the annual running cost for the average boat. This % will increase for faster power boats using more fuel and drop for sailing boats using less, but for instance Mobos can find cheaper mooring deals where sailing boats can't go. Newer boats will suffer more depreciation than older, but older can suffer unpleasant surprises when expensive defects are revealed.

My first boat was a triple keel 22' sailing boat, and we extensively sailed to places later boats just could not reach, and that was cheap cheap boating.

The thing I haven't yet worked out is that as the expense of boating has increased, the difference in pleasure had now is difficult to measure from the heady days of discovery at the start of the boating ownership. I do wonder if the unexplainable urge to continue to go boating is the mind seeking the original thrill of boating, like a heroine user looking for that very first fix again.

Thing is you can't take it with you, and no point leaving it for the kids, as they will only waste it.

I'd agree with just about everything written on this thread apart from the 10% rule of thumb. In all my years of owning boats, now approaching 30 (where did that time go!), apart from a very few years, I got nowhere near spending 10% of the value of the boat. For our present boat, it works out at quite a bit less than 5%. But if I was Solent based I guess the equation would be quite different!!

If you intend to spend a lot of time on board, look for the biggest boat you can afford, you won't regret it.

 

[jrudge]

But most of the time light aircraft typically fly you at heights where you can't really see the scenery to windswept bleak out-of-the-way aerodromes where the food is **** and nobody gives you the time of day. While we were at Bembridge last summer we walked round to the airfield where we endured a meal in the usual greasy spoon cafe and watched a light aircraft come in from Germany - nobody said a word to the pilot or his passengers and they didn't look pleased about the food either.


What a wonderfully accurate summary! The $100 hamburger springs to mind ( except it is now a darn site more than $100!)

We just used the plane as A to B transport. We were at Elstree for 15 odd years, and still treated as outsiders!

Boats are far more sociable, and you can stay on it when you arrive

 

[rustybarge]

Just a rough guide on fuel consumption.

up to 7mtr /2.5 tons/250 hp you can expect about 4 mpg/ 4 gals diesel an hour.
But once you get to 8mtr/4 tons/370 hp you're on twice the fuel consumption at 2mpg or less!

Caveat: Fuel consumtion is a very steep graph directly related to weight

 

[neale]

The 10% rule is so variable that it is almost useless. You could buy a £5k boat and find an annual mooring in the Solent would be 100% of the value. Add in fuel, insurance and a service and you could almost get the annual running costs to 200% of the value. Mooring is a huge variable. A 40 footer would cost you around £10k a year in some marinas but you could keep the same boat elsewhere for under £1k. Fuel is another obvious variable from almost nothing per year up to many thousands. Servicing. Main agent say £500 per engine and £500 per drive, so potentially a couple of grand a year for twins. DIY for same boat £500 in total. Boating has a minimum cost that you can't get around,you have to park it, insure it, fuel it and look after it, but it can be a lot less than many people spend. Take fuel out of the equation and my 30 footer costs around £1500 for mooring, lift in and out, servicing of 2x engines and drives, antifoul, licence and insurance.

 

[Momac]

Fuel consumption is a very steep graph directly related to weight

And very much related to speed.

 

[rustybarge]

And very much related to speed.

+1
forgot to mention at economical planing cruise speed. Depending on hull shape about 15-25kts approx.

 

[Dick Atcherley]

If you run something nice, like a six seater retractable, that does 160 knots, the running costs are simply of a different magnitude to most boats. Based on flying 150hrs pa, the annual costs broke down as follows:

Insurance £1,300
Parking and based landing fees £2,400
Annual & 2 x 50hr checks £6,000
Fuel @ £120 ph x 150hrs £18,000
Engine fund @ £15 ph x 150hrs £2,250

About £30k p/a divided by 150 hrs = £200 p/h

I'm having a sabbatical from aircraft and returning to boats (which is where I started out 30 years ago); it's got more expensive, but it's nothing like aircraft!

 

[TwoHooter]

We were at Elstree for 15 odd years, and still treated as outsiders! Boats are far more sociable, and you can stay on it when you arrive

I know we are very new and perhaps we have just been lucky so far but my experience of boating people has been remarkably different to flying. I remember taxying in to a stand at Popham under direct instructions from ATC only to be greeted by the threat of a punch in the nose from the pilot of the adjacent aircraft who thought I shouldn't have parked there because I was too close to him. Then there was the day when I walked round a twin turboprop just to have a look and was accosted by a pompous twerp who shouted that he hadn't given me permission to look at "his" aeroplane (I looked up the registration later and it was the United Biscuits corporate aircraft so presumably he was just an employee). I could go on. In contrast we have found boating people friendly, ready to have a chat, take your lines, offer pilotage advice, etc. etc. As for having somewhere to stay when you arrive, for us that is really the main attraction. We have enjoyed our little cruises but the greatest pleasure for us is arriving somewhere nice and having our own place to stay. I am looking forward to visiting both remote anchorages and big cities. If you factor in the savings on hotels and B&Bs the running costs come down a bit.