Buying + refurbishing a run down boat

[pond weed]

Hello all.

Iv had been going through this liveaboard forum for the last few days. I must say a wonderful supportive community.

I am 22 and live a very nomadic lifestyle, mostly with just enough money to get me through the day. I spent my childhood, sailing dinghies and the last few years on the road, hitchhiking, living of a guitar.
In that time I had a few short encounters on yachts, and over much thinking and consideration, have decided that my plan for the next few years is to buy a deteriated 30-40ft boat and rebuild the whole interior. To live in.
rip out absolutely everything, but the mast and engine.

I live a traveller life. I have great difficulty living in a landlocked home, and the thought of having a moving home makes to most sense in the world to me.
Most of all, my passion is meeting new people and making new friends. The possibility to invite others onto the boat is what appeals to me the most.



I have a great, if not monstrous amount to learn about boats and I plan to spend a lot more time on boats, learning, before I even consider buying one.



As I am in the planning stages at the moment, I was wondering if you might be able to help answer a few questions so as to get a rough idea of the ‘direction’ of future plans.

As it stands, I plan to save up £5,000, hitchhike to Greece and spend 1 year searching the islands for a deteriated boat (I hear some sellers refer to them as ‘project’ bats in listings).
Upon finding a boat, thoroughly inspect integrity of hull and if adequate, purchase it and find a marina to temporarily settle with a job, in which I can spend time rebuilding the interior.

Carpentry is one of my trades and I hope to gear the boat up for cruising med waters. Open Atlantic is something else for another time.



A few questions:

providing I have 1 year to search for a boat (more time if necessary), how much do you think I could find a 30-40ft for, with no consideration to interior aesthetics?

What sailing qualifications do I need for this, according to regulation?

What are your thoughts on the above, mentioned plan, what are the potential problems in it?

What are your estimations on cost of building a new deck, cabin and interior?
(I have little, if no concern for visual aesthetics, rather the function)


Does anyone have any, or know of any blogs on refurbishing old boats?
(essentially boat building, disregarding hull, mast and engine)



As I mentioned before, I have a great deal to learn regarding the engineering and function of boats bigger than dinghies, and will not begin looking for a boat, until I am confident I know enough.

I am very grateful for any advice you are able to offer.

Thankyou very much for your time, I wish you a wonderful day.

Chris

 

[sailorman]

Hi Chris
Welcome to the forum & a very happy new year to you & yours.
it seems that you a are not alone in your quest for a "Life before the mast"
i hope it all works out for you.
this place is full of knowledgeable folk covering the whole spectrum of boating.
There a few Twats too

 

[JamesFrance]

There a few Twats too

Usually the ones with more than 10,000 posts.

 

[sailorman]

Usually the ones with more than 10,000 posts.

Hi Nube
Happy NY

 

[Ludd]

Hello all.

Iv had been going through this liveaboard forum for the last few days. I must say a wonderful supportive community.

I am 22 and live a very nomadic lifestyle, mostly with just enough money to get me through the day. I spent my childhood, sailing dinghies and the last few years on the road, hitchhiking, living of a guitar.
In that time I had a few short encounters on yachts, and over much thinking and consideration, have decided that my plan for the next few years is to buy a deteriated 30-40ft boat and rebuild the whole interior. To live in.
rip out absolutely everything, but the mast and engine.

I live a traveller life. I have great difficulty living in a landlocked home, and the thought of having a moving home makes to most sense in the world to me.
Most of all, my passion is meeting new people and making new friends. The possibility to invite others onto the boat is what appeals to me the most.



I have a great, if not monstrous amount to learn about boats and I plan to spend a lot more time on boats, learning, before I even consider buying one.



As I am in the planning stages at the moment, I was wondering if you might be able to help answer a few questions so as to get a rough idea of the ‘direction’ of future plans.

As it stands, I plan to save up £5,000, hitchhike to Greece and spend 1 year searching the islands for a deteriated boat (I hear some sellers refer to them as ‘project’ bats in listings).
Upon finding a boat, thoroughly inspect integrity of hull and if adequate, purchase it and find a marina to temporarily settle with a job, in which I can spend time rebuilding the interior.

Carpentry is one of my trades and I hope to gear the boat up for cruising med waters. Open Atlantic is something else for another time.



A few questions:

providing I have 1 year to search for a boat (more time if necessary), how much do you think I could find a 30-40ft for, with no consideration to interior aesthetics?

What sailing qualifications do I need for this, according to regulation?

What are your thoughts on the above, mentioned plan, what are the potential problems in it?

What are your estimations on cost of building a new deck, cabin and interior?
(I have little, if no concern for visual aesthetics, rather the function)


Does anyone have any, or know of any blogs on refurbishing old boats?
(essentially boat building, disregarding hull, mast and engine)



As I mentioned before, I have a great deal to learn regarding the engineering and function of boats bigger than dinghies, and will not begin looking for a boat, until I am confident I know enough.

I am very grateful for any advice you are able to offer.

Thankyou very much for your time, I wish you a wonderful day.

Chris

Welcome to the most sane part of the madhouse!
Are you determined to start your search in Greece? If you are based in UK ,spend some time looking around at the less fashionable sailing areas for what is available ,and to get an idea what is possible and what is not.
For example ,the size of boat you mention at the price you mention will be a bit of a challenge . You can have great parties on a 35ft boat. Bear in mind EVERYTHING costs more for a big boat---sails,berthing,rigging ,engine. Also considerb what is reasonable to sail singlehanded.Generally singlehanders seem to settle for 30ft-40ft,marina prices have different cut-off points,sometimes 11metres,usually 10metres,where berthing costs jump a lot.
Good luck,take your time ,and distill all the advice you get carefully---including mine!

 

[Wansworth]

With your skills as a busker and wood worker you should be in demand for casual work in the med area.Somefriends of mine had to turn work away but they were good varnishers....anyway maybe you could work at the cooking side as well.That said you will not find in the history of yachting were boats are at rock bottom prices.Your best bet is a boat that can take the ground so cheaper to keep long term and that has a good engine the rest is mendable.There have been many peopl who have taken on projects and as time passes people ask them to do work for them and time passes i KNOW SOMEONE WHO TOOK 18 Yers to partially firt out a Brixham trawler so beware.Felices festas!

 

[phantomlady]

A ferro cement yacht might be worth thinking about....they are generally very good value for money size-wise and can be quite easily repaired if you get a well built one. I think because of general prejudice against ferro as a boat building material (and there are some pretty dire examples around) the prices are very low for what you get for your money.

 

[AndrewB]

Welcome PondWeed!

To get a structurally sound hull of 30-40' which can be restored to sailability for £5,000 is quite a tall order. I'd think in terms of a somewhat smaller boat with this budget, maybe nearer 28ft. This would be easier to manage if you couldn't afford an engine, or decided to make do with an old outboard.

You need to consider early on where you would do the work. The cost of leaving a boat in a conventional boatyard while you work on it would not be cheap, and some wouldn't welcome it, but there are yards tucked away in the UK which cater for this sort of thing, with other people doing likewise who can help you along.

If your budget is really tight it helps if you live on the boat while you work on it.

I don't know the sailing scene in Greece very well but from experience elsewhere I'd suggest you stick to UK as second-hand parts are much more easily sourced and people are generally more understanding of this sort of thing.

Check out the article on the fundamentals of restoration projects on this site for a summary of the practicalities. You might find an American forum Project Boat Zen of interest.

 

[jerrytug]

Hi Nube
Happy NY

A fine shot sir.

 

[charles_reed]

Ah well, should provide many happy hours of "why it can't be done".

We are getting through the Looking Glass.

 

[pond weed]

thank all so much for the replies and advise. I have spent many hours trawling through old threads on this forum, partly for random bits of knowledge, but mainly because its so nice to see such a supportive community, and the prospect of becoming involved in such communities is possibly what excites me most about life aboard.


I agree that £5,000 is a bit too optimistic. but that amount is for the initial purchase, not the refurbishment.
I will definatly be living aboard during refurbishment. I am happy enough with just a bed.
The year i spent hitchhiking around europe, i lived out of a small backpack, spending most nights outdoors (some nights strangers would give me a sofa to crash on).
that was the best year of my life. where i found tremendous amounts of joy and love in meeting and sharing adventures with people.


my possible overambitious expectation for size of the boat, comes, not so much for the desire to have 'parties' but rather to be able to share adventures with strangers.
in my life, of all the hitchhiking i have done, hundreds (literally, iv lost count) of people have shown me unconditional kindess.

when hitching in the states, i was chilling outside a mcdonalds, in a little patch of shade, against a fence. a chap who lives next door, arrives home, come up to me, and asks what im doing.

"just chilling"

i told him of my travels and living of a guitar. he invited me to stay, and told me i can stay a day or a decade. his name was paul.
i came back to visit him on several occasions and we had many wonderful talks.
on one of those occasions, i was talking to one of his friends, when paul was out, he said:

"do you know who that is, thats paul benson, he lead the team that invented the test for Aids"

small world

this is one of hundreds of stories of strangers unconditional kindness and love shown to me.
and now i feel i would like to start reciprocating that kindness to the world. hence why im interested in a slightly bigger boat, in order to comfortably have aboard a group of travelers.

I am beginning to understand the extra costs, but to me, the extra work required is worth it, because being able to invite fellow travelers aboard is something very close to my heart.

A ferro cement yacht might be worth thinking about....they are generally very good value for money size-wise and can be quite easily repaired if you get a well built one. I think because of general prejudice against ferro as a boat building material (and there are some pretty dire examples around) the prices are very low for what you get for your money.

phantomlady, thankyou for mentioning about ferro boats, having done a bit of research it looks to be more suited for me. especialy looking at sale listings many of them seem to be cruising boats on more of the 'leisure' end.


I have another question on that note. for reasons mentioned above, i'd be after a wider hull, for more living space. understanding that there would be a compromise in speed.
can anyone recommend any model/classes with a wider hull? iv tried all types of google searches but cant find much on it.

 

[phantomlady]

Pond Weed you sound like the sort of person that would fit right in down where I live. In our local yard there are lots of like-minded people living on boats whilst they are doing them up in preparation and anticipation of adventures far and wide. Lots of people living the traveller/boho lifestyle on very little money and plenty of goodwill
Good luck!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sailing-Y...ng_Goods_Sailing_Boats_ET&hash=item3a7d056078 - look at this!

 

[lenseman]

Hello all.

Iv had been going through this liveaboard forum for the last few days. I must say a wonderful supportive community.

. . . . .

Hiya Chris - Welcome to the sailing world.

You don't say where you are and therefore it is difficult to suggest where to look to search for a boat. If you fill in more of your biography then someone in the world will certainly be able to advise on which boat yards are probables to have a run down 30 foot yacht to suit your requirements.

 

[Rossynant]

One tip - check ebay daily. Also french and german ebay any website with free ads worth checking too.
It's possible to find a boat for just couple K, but rather around 30 then 40 feet. I remember a few. Two were at Gibraltar, went for around 2000 (one I have seen, engine instalation to change, not much to do otherwise, just old and neglected) - 30' fiberglass.
Bigger were: Nice ferro Colin Archer, roomy, in process of renewing, for few k euro, open to offers. Not much to do. In France.
Another was big ferro at Majorca (40') with hole in the bilge - wet but otherwise perfect - went on the rocks after mooring broke, asking about 4k. Very nice fiberglass racing boat of 1960 y, 36' but narrow, partially rebuilt already and only interior to complete, beautifull; no idea if sold but was reduced to 7k euro.
Not to mention classic wooden boats with hull to rebuild, though may be interesting for skilled wodworker; but money will be necessary for that later. Above examples were in good condition really, no need of serious rebuilding and money, most gear on board, just lots of handiwork. Hard to find buyer nowadays who wants to waste time, so they are difficult to sell - and place in marina cost more then they are worth... offer 1/3 of asking price, wait and see

Look for old traditional boats with classic long keel, strong and simple construction.
As for hull volume - my personal favourite is Colin Archer type, also known as "double ender". Heavy, not for light wind of Med, but in strong wind as fast as you need, safe and comfortable. This shape of hull is perfect for ferro construction, so many were made.

Modern beamy finkeelers with some damage can be found almost free, plenty of space (made more for partying in marina then conmfort at sea); but often impossible to repair really, it's just "throw-away construction".

Merry Christmas

 

[chasroberts]

Also might be worth lowering your sights a little at first. A more manageable project on a 28 - 30 footer will allow you to finish it cheaper and sooner than a larger boat and hopefully provide your 'seed money' for your ultimate project - the one you plan to keep when done up.

Not trying to dampen your enthusiam by any means, but I've seen a few people who've bitten off more than they could chew at the first go and lost enthusiasm. The boat you are looking for is out there - no doubt. The hard bit is finding her (just like true love). To see a beautifully restored hulk is truly a thing of beauty, just realise that unless you are extremely firtunate it's not going to happen overnight.

Good luck with your quest and happy sailing.

Chas

 

[toad]

With your practical skills why not get a job with a flotilla company as a engineer (you do not have to be a mechanic just practical). You will learn more in a season about boating than you can ever learn off the internet and my well find the location of a likely craft. Company's like sailing Holladay's are always looking for staff especially after the season starts and crew decide its not for them. Pay is not brilliant about 150 Euros a week but if you are out on flotilla its pocket money as there is no living costs.

 

[penfold]

Not a great idea IMO; any cost saving there may be in buying a project in Greece will be chewed up by the higher cost of bits and bobs out there. If you must do a project as described it makes a lot more sense to do it in the UK where there are boat jumbles, cheap online chandlery and ebay.

It's a lot cheaper and easier hoboing around the globe on other people's yachts and if you are a skilled woodbasher there will be a steady stream of people seeking your talents, particularly in the more remote parts of the world. There are plenty of boats which welcome people who trade their labour or skills for a bit of adventure; here's an example of the kind of thing you might find. My advice would be to try doing it on other folks' boats first, learning as you go, then if you like the lifestyle you can go and get your own craft, and the experience gained will help you identify what kind of boat you want.

 

[Rossynant]

One example to look at, from quick glance on the net http://www.eyb-boats.com/en/ads/sailing-boats/roberts/roberts-34/_R_853_591939_.htm
This is nice model, sailing well and the biggest boat I would try, anything more would be never done Roberts was for amateur building, so maybe it's simply made and good also for 'amateur fixing'. You can ask for details and think some more about the idea, or even go, take a look and imagine the work to be done. You got to start from something, looking a few boats up closely. This one, if a boat is sound and "reasonable offer" could be negotiated...

 

[pond weed]

Thankyou all so much for your advise and support. It means a great deal to me that so many of you have taken the time to give your honest opinions and provide the links you have


After much thinking and consideration of your advise, I do now feel that I should start with something smaller. Partly to learn and additionally, simply being out on the water will open up a great deal of financial opportunity (finding work).

the final ‘dream’, would be something along the lines of a 40ft ketch, but I see now, that if I start of with that, I would have to spend a great deal of time working in a land locked environment to raise the funding, then upon making the purchase, finding iv bitten of more than I can chew.

Regarding the carpentry, when I set upon a project, a spend a great deal of time and thought, in the interaction of the final product. So in the context of an interior, I plan out very carfully, the lifestyle of the people living in it.
With that in mind, I believe that if I rebuilt the interior according to my preferences, the resale value would be mediocre.
Where as if I selected the most biggest target audience (eg retired couples, families) and re designed it according to their daily habits and routines, the resale value would be considerable higher.
To spend a great deal of time rebuilding an interior not suited to my preferences seems a little demoralising.
May I ask you all, what your opinions are on target markets for live-aboard boats (young/retired couples, families, singles etc) ?

I am from the UK, and quite frankly am fed up of it. The culture and mindset is something I feel I really need to get away from.
I appreciate that it may be beneficial to refurbish a boat here, but would you know of other suitable locations penfold?


Rosynant, thank you for that link you provided. I must admit, I saw that, and was immediately hit with a pang of disappointment, as it seems very suitable and I am currently 2k overdrawn (result of higher education… mistake).
come april though i will set down the backpack and knuckle down with some long hourd jobs.

I guess I need to set my mind upon the present, I need to be setting of for Greece in a few days. Ill be hitchhiking with my jack Russell to Crete, through France and Italy, boat to mainland Greece, then another to Crete.
Am planning on busking in port towns to raise money for ferry (should only be a few days playing guitar).
I will try my luck asking around boat owners, but I know it can be hit and miss (especially with the dog) and I need to be in Crete by early/mid February.
Iv organised to work on a nature reserve there for a few months. Im very excited to get out of the UK for a while.

 

[V1701]

There was an Irish guy sailing around Thailand/Malaysia keeping himself going by taking people around a few of the islands. He had a thirty odd foot steel boat so two or three max at a time. If you did choose to do something like this there's the whole can of worms of insurance if people are paying, but if you only ask them to contribute to their share of food & fuel you're absolutely fine. I've done a fair bit of travelling around SE Asia & the Caribbean, there's certainly areas there that you'd meet lots of like minded people. I wonder if you'd be a bit disappointed with Greece/Med, much of the tourist trade there being yacht chartering/package holidays/brits abroad? Are there loads of backpackers around Greece/Crete? Maybe someone there could comment? And you're going there anyway so you can see for yourself...

Given the state of the used boat market at the moment I would be surprised if you couldn't find a 30-odd footer in usable condition for £5k in Greece or here, or anywhere in between but it would be invaluable to do a bit of crewing for others first, UK or Med, to get an idea what you're doing/what to look for. If you can find a usable boat with space for a few others then I'd advocate that rather than buying the biggest thing you can find that requires shedloads of work. Best of luck, where are you based when you come back to UK?