Buying-Broker-surveyor

[tertim]

I am going to Mallorca this weekend to look at a couple of yachts for sale, would appreciate any thoughts on the buying process and possible problems . eg
I Make offer, Offer accepted, pay deposit, survey ok, pay balance, obtain title and take possession, smiles all-round.
What if survey throws up major problems and owner refuses to negotiate a reduced price (Possible problems getting deposit refunded and loss of survey costs)

Broker refuses to have boat lifted (at my expense)prior to contract and deposit

Tertim

 

[warrior40]

The suvey is to show up any potential probs, so if you find some and the vendor will not negotiate, walk away, the survey has been worth it and and saved you buying a 'dud'

You normally have to pay a 10% deposit before you can lift out and have a survey, this is the way, but I'm surprised that the broker won't let you lift the boat at your expense to have a look before deciding to proceed.

If, after survey you decide not to go ahead, any reputable broker should return your deposit.

I went to Mallorca in September to look at a boat and ended looking at a fair number of others too with brokers . you'll be surprised what you find when you get there. I came close to putting an offer in for a boat, and had a surveyor come down for the afternoon to give a considered opinion, before I went any further and made an offer, subject to a proper survey. He charged about a 100 quid for the best part of an afternoon, well worth it . I can give you his name if you want.

What broker/s are you using and what boat are you going to look at?

Hope this helps, the RYA can give more advice if you want. Many boats aren't VAT paid there so be careful in that department.

 

[Tiger Rag]

PURCHASE CONTRACT

Dear Tertim,

If you have selected a reputable broker then you should have no problems, here how it should go.

You inspect the yacht, lik what you see and decide to make an offer.

The first offer is only verbal and the broker will make it clear to the seller that you are at this stage under no financial obligation to purchase the vessel.

If the owner agrees in principal to your verbal offer a sales agreement (contract) must be drawn up BEFORE YOU PAY ANYTHING!

The contract MUST state clearly that your offer is to buy the yacht with CLEAR TITLE AND FREE FROM ALL DEBTS, LIENS AND ENCUMBERANCES AND THAT YOUR OFFER IS SUBJECT TO SATISFACTORY INSPECTION, SEA TRAIL AND SURVEY.

Once all parties have agreed to and signed the contract you would be obliged to pay a 10% deposit. The contract MUST have a clause in it that spitulates you are free to walk away at any point and have your deposit refunded should the aforementioned inspection, sea trial and survey throw up any defects.

It would be unusual to haul out a yacht before a contract is signed but not totally unheard of. If the contract contains the right protection for your deposit then you should not worry.

If the survey throws up any significant problems (which means your original contract is null and void) then it is up to your brokerto renegotiate a reduction in the offered price to AT LEAST cover the cost of the necessary repairs e.g., if one engine needs replacing and a new one will cost £20,000 then the broker should be looking to take the £20,000 for the engine, the cost of hauling out, any labour involved and a sum to cover your time and inconvienence while the vessel is out of commission.

If the owner is unwilling to renegotiate then get your deposit back and walk away.

On a final note, speaking as a broker myself you must remember that the broker is WORKING ON YOUR BEHALF! If at any stage you feel that he is representing the interests of the seller to the more strongly then get another broker!

Hope all goes well, weather looks like it will be glorious this weekend

 

[pandroid]

Re: PURCHASE CONTRACT

<you must remember that the broker is WORKING ON YOUR BEHALF!>

I'm amazed at that staement. The seller is paying the Broker's fee. He should be working on the seller's behalf.

I acept, in reality, he's trying to get two parties together, but, like with an estate agent, surely he should be working to maximise the sellers return.

 

[tertim]

Re: PURCHASE CONTRACT

Thank you for the input, looking forward to the weekend

tertim

 

[Tiger Rag]

Re: PURCHASE CONTRACT

This is one those questions, you say the seller is paying the broker's commission yet the person writing the cheque is the buyer. I was in a hurry and perhaps didn't express myself well, I merely wanted to say that the broker should not be trying to bully clients into anything, not if he wants to earn his commission.

 

[Guest]

I'm going at there to look at a few yachts in February, and would very much appreciate names and contact details for surveyors out there. Particularly if they no something about steel boats, although I am also looking at few plastic ones too.

Will

 

[Tiger Rag]

Jayson Sibley has impressed a few of my friends/contacts, most of the surveyors we deal with are appointed by the classification socities and so we have little choice.I personally have never worked with him but he seems fairly knowledgable his numbers are Tel: +34 607 560 767 Fax: +34 607 570 081.

Let me know what you think of him.

 

[Chris_Stannard]

Re: Buying in Spain

I do not have any experieince of buying boats in Spain, but my parents-in-law bought a house, or at least they thought they had. they had been through all the legal detail, used local lawyers and so on. About 18 months later they were sued on the grounds that the house had been illegally built on ground that did not belong to the builder and had to pay a considerable sum to buy that. The local Spanish courts view seems to be that if one party is Spanish and the other is not the Spaniard wins no matter what the law or justice says. I also note that the Spanish have recently, in some areas retrospectively changed the property laws to the detriment of foreign home owners.

My advice, based on trying to sort my parents-in-law out is be very careful if the seller is Spanish.

I did buy a boat in Holland, and got round the deposit by insisting it was held by a notary, under the terms of a contract which he had drawn up. Before I signed up I had it translated, the translation certified and checked over by a solicter. This clearly stated the terms under which the deposit could be released to the vendor, and those under which it would be returned to me.

Chris Stannard

 

[Tiger Rag]

Re: Buying in Spain

very pertinent point made by Chris, if the broker is unwilling to or dosen't have access to a lawyers account it should be held in a dedicated client account and not in an account held by the broker or his/her company. We have recently just bought an apartment in Mallorca and while it is true the house buying laws are a potential minefield and are incredibly biased towards the Spanish/Mallorcians luckily this is not the case when buying boats.

 

[falcon5]

I would suggest you also need a contract with the surveyor,.
with my insurance company I have just spent £45,000 on legal fees trying to sue a surveyor who knowingly gave a boat a clean bill of health, when the keel was moving 6-8 inches side to side, we have withdrawn as we have run out of money for the case, his PIA didn't help me, that was just used to fight my claim, it was made worse by being under Scottish law rather than English. as the boat purchase and surveyor were scottish.
so i recommend a contract with the surveyor where he agrees to pass on any prior knowledge and that he also agrees to abitration by his peers if you are unhappy with his work, AND MAKE SURE YOUR HOUSEHOLD INSURANCE POLICY COVERS YOU FOR LEGAL PROTECTION WHEN MAKING A NON BUSINESS PURCHASE